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Post by artmonster1 on Jun 28, 2011 9:29:08 GMT -5
((EDIT: gah ...sorry, was late when I posted...didnt think about this thread being for Archetypes when I posted... what I posted below deals with a freeform build...sorry...I'll leave it for the walk of shame ))nice write up poochie. very interesting how similar they are. I am currently lvl 29 with my build. My SS are CON/END for durability and energy availability. REC/INT are my secondary stats focused on. took INT instead of DEX becasue I'd rather have efficiency than crits with this build personally. the other stats are pretty much the same. ( gotta admit with END/REC/INT in my build...energy has NEVER been an issue ... snow storms are freakishly long) I also didnt build for 'tanking'. so I didnt take aggro advantages. I use 'both' snowstorm AND frostbreath ( I use FB for a quick tap to chill before ice blasting, and SS for the main group attacks) took avalance earlier on too, casue its such a cool power...(especially the ice chunks throwing all around) I also have an arctic beast R3, nice sidekick I do have to admit  This bugger can fight ! nice to have as a backup...and my only friend in the whole wide world ...*sniff I also wanted some "oh snap !" buttons for the later levels (yess button's' )...so I have Bionic shielding for the obvious mid-battle heals...and then I took both unbreakable AND resurgence ( having two active defenses to rotate has always treated me well ... very survivable ). other than that...yup...good comparison... I can agree with this thread. ;D here's my current "chilly willy" (freeform) build if anyone is interested (I can never leave well enough alone though ) Build by championBuilder 0.4.1Download this Build here.: Level 40 ChampionSuperstats:Level 6: Super ConstitutionLevel 13: Super EndurancePowers:Level 1: Ice ShardsLevel 1: Ice Blast -- Rank 2, Hard FrostLevel 6: Frost Breath -- Frost BiteLevel 6: Ice SlideLevel 8: Invulnerability -- Rank 3, Rank 2Level 11: Snow Storm -- Eye Of The Storm, Rank 2Level 14: Ice Shield -- Frigid AirLevel 17: Ice SheathLevel 20: Avalanche -- Rank 3, Rank 2Level 23: Bionic ShieldingLevel 26: Ice Burst -- Freeze, Dirtbag, Rank 2Level 29: Arctic Beast -- Rank 2, Rank 3Level 32: Shatter -- Crushed Ice, Rank 2Level 35: Unbreakable -- Rank 2Level 35: AcrobaticsLevel 38: Resurgence -- Rank 2Talents:Level 1: The GlacierLevel 6: Boundless ReservesLevel 9: Amazing StaminaLevel 12: NegotiatorLevel 15: Quick RecoveryLevel 18: Healthy MindLevel 21: Investigator
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Post by taanstaf1 on Jul 4, 2011 12:20:12 GMT -5
Thanks for this thread, it's helped me quickly understand the basics of the Glacier Archtype. I was hoping I could get some feedback on a pure pvp glacier build.
I think the cornerstone of the build is going to have to be Frost Breath over SnowStorm and Ice Burst over Ice Barrier, though I'm open to discussion on those as well, obviously.
Ice Burst over Ice Barrier seems almost a given, as survival will not be the problem this build encounters, but actually landing kills outside Ice Sheath will be, and Ice Burst plays into that.
Frost Breath over SnowStorm isn't quite as black and white, but I still think it's the clear winner. SnowStorm is awesome, and has practical use in PvP (Finishing off teleporting runners comes to mind most strongly), but again doesn't play into the strengths and weaknesses of the class well. The Shatter combo will necessarily play an important role in the attempt to make the glacier the DPS class it is in freeform, and Frost Breath empowers that far more strongly than SS.
I fully intend on editing this as comments come in, but this is a vague, nooby, purely theoretical view of what it might look like at 40.
Ice Shards:
Ice Blast: Rank 2, Hard Frost
Ice Cage: Crippling Challenge (For breaking Blocks, not for aggro)
Invulnerability: Rank 2, Rank 3
Frost Breath: Frost Bite
Ice Shield: Rank 2, Frigid Air
Ice Sheath: Rank 2, Rank 3
Shatter: Nailed to the Ground, Crushed Ice
Unbreakable: Rank 2, Rank 3
Ice Burst: Rank 2, Freeze, Dirtbag
Avalanche: Rank 2, Rank 3
Now here's the part where I specifically want your (Yes, you) input. Am I missing anything obvious? Have I forgotten anything I'll need later? Did you notice the build requires 37 advantage points, and if so, where do you think I could cut 1?
More specifically....
Crippling Challenge: How does it work? If I put it on Ice Blast, does it break blocks every time I spam-tap it, effectively negating the use of Block for my target? If I put it on Ice Cage and the target is immune to Ice Cage because it was applied too many times recently (Diminishing returns), will the block break still work?
Ice Blast. Is Rank 2 better than Crippling Challenge? Rank 2 is more damage (obviously), but Crippling Challenge also adds the 20% damage debuff, so it might not be the huge damage gain I hope it is. I know the 20% damage buff decays, but does it refresh it to 20% every time if I spam-tap? If so, wouldn't that be more damage for tap-spamming Blast than Rank 2 anyway?
Ice Shield. Is there any reason to rank it up for PvP? Presumably anybody even worth discussing as a theoretical threat in PvP will have a ready Block Breaker, and the sense to know when to use it. Should I just dump the points to it altogether?
Avalanche: Serrated Shards, or Rank 3? It seems like Serrated Shards could actually add more DPS than Rank 3 will, and it DEFINITELY will with Ice Sheathe up to make the crit coefficient ludicrous. Can that duo take the crit severity over 100%?
I'm really eager to hear back on this from others more familiar with "high end" glacier pvp, and thanks for taking the time to read this far.
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Post by PoochieHellhound on Jul 4, 2011 15:24:28 GMT -5
Thanks for this thread, it's helped me quickly understand the basics of the Glacier Archtype. I was hoping I could get some feedback on a pure pvp glacier build. *snip* Seems like you have a sweet deal going on there. You seem to have grasped the idea of playing a Glacier already, and your build looks solid. Kudos! Now for your questions: Crippling Challenge: How does it work? If I put it on Ice Blast, does it break blocks every time I spam-tap it, effectively negating the use of Block for my target? If I put it on Ice Cage and the target is immune to Ice Cage because it was applied too many times recently (Diminishing returns), will the block break still work? To answer this question, I have to explain how Crippling Challenge works. Crippling Challenge applies a debuff that lasts 15 seconds, that reduces the target's damage by 20%, you've got that right. But it also interrupts Blocking, and disables it for 10 seconds.. This means that you don't have to tap-spam a Crippling Challenge power to disable blocking permanently, you just have to use it once every 10 seconds! I tested it, and even though someone has 3 stacks of Root Resistance the Crippling Challenge debuff, and presumably also Block breaker, is applied. Ice Blast. Is Rank 2 better than Crippling Challenge? Rank 2 is more damage (obviously), but Crippling Challenge also adds the 20% damage debuff, so it might not be the huge damage gain I hope it is. I know the 20% damage buff decays, but does it refresh it to 20% every time if I spam-tap? If so, wouldn't that be more damage for tap-spamming Blast than Rank 2 anyway? If you remember to use Ice Cage every 10 seconds, you won't need Crippling Challenge on Ice Blast, and can thus push it to Rank 2. Ice Shield. Is there any reason to rank it up for PvP? Presumably anybody even worth discussing as a theoretical threat in PvP will have a ready Block Breaker, and the sense to know when to use it. Should I just dump the points to it altogether? Rank 2 is probably useless for PvP, since your Block will be out most of the time. Frigid Air may be beneficial, but highly situational. I would drop both Advantages and spend them on my Travel Powers, but that's just me. Avalanche: Serrated Shards, or Rank 3? It seems like Serrated Shards could actually add more DPS than Rank 3 will, and it DEFINITELY will with Ice Sheathe up to make the crit coefficient ludicrous. Can that duo take the crit severity over 100%? If you have some investment in DEX, Serrated Shards could definitely be better than Rank 3 to push your crit chance and severity to the limit. It really depends on your stats. As to what you could spend advantage points on if you were to dump it all from Ice Shield and are satisfied with the speed of your Travel Powers, you could put them into Ice Cage for increased damage when you shatter them. |
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Post by taanstaf1 on Jul 5, 2011 13:17:41 GMT -5
Amazing. Thanks so much for the feedback Poochie.
Just knowing how (ludicrously well) Crippling Challenge works has given me a lot more confidence that this will work. Inasmuch as Glacier can "work" as a DPS class archtype. I should have asked that question, why are they trying to make the AT a tank?
I'll obviously be stacking Cons/End until I hit diminishing returns for them, but my Primary Secondary stat will be Dex, and then Recovery for filler. I'd really like to overemphasize the amount of Dex I'm carrying around, as the glacier seems to be the only one able to abuse Dex without Ego (Through Ice Sheath).
I'm glad I can save 4 points on Ice Shield, I've overbudgeted this build by one point, so I have 3 more to spend. I was probably going to get Rank 2 Teleport and throw the last point at Crippling Strikes or whatever the PVE threat talent is on Frost Breath, just so I can at least pretend to do my job while instancing, but now that you've pointed out how the extra Ice Cage points work, I'll almost assuredly get that. Especially if I'll already be spamming it for block breaks.
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Post by a11star on Jul 5, 2011 19:38:56 GMT -5
Amazing. Thanks so much for the feedback Poochie. Just knowing how (ludicrously well) Crippling Challenge works has given me a lot more confidence that this will work. Inasmuch as Glacier can "work" as a DPS class archtype. I should have asked that question, why are they trying to make the AT a tank? I'll obviously be stacking Cons/End until I hit diminishing returns for them, but my Primary Secondary stat will be Dex, and then Recovery for filler. I'd really like to overemphasize the amount of Dex I'm carrying around, as the glacier seems to be the only one able to abuse Dex without Ego (Through Ice Sheath). I'm glad I can save 4 points on Ice Shield, I've overbudgeted this build by one point, so I have 3 more to spend. I was probably going to get Rank 2 Teleport and throw the last point at Crippling Strikes or whatever the PVE threat talent is on Frost Breath, just so I can at least pretend to do my job while instancing, but now that you've pointed out how the extra Ice Cage points work, I'll almost assuredly get that. Especially if I'll already be spamming it for block breaks. Hello, Thanks for asking your questions, I'm in the same boat as you and right now, I'm a lvl 16 Glacier. Coming from an Inferno AT, the extra health and defense is VERY welcome! Killing things in one shot is fun, but I died frequently without any type of healing since I'm a Silver account. The original build has made this game MUCH more enjoyable to me! I've only died once at the beginning when I was getting used to Glacier and how it plays. I haven't lost one round in PvP yet, and while I don't do as much damage as I did as Inferno, I LIVE! XD Sorry, long story short, I am following this PvP build you're conjuring up and was wondering if you could update with the points you just made (although I think I followed the conversation close enough)? Also, how much of a detour are you taking on stats from the original build? Are you changing talent point distribution and I was just curious which ones you would go for? Currently, at lvl 16, I have chosen 3: Boundless Reserves, Amazing Stamina, and... not sure where to go for my third talent point. |
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Post by maverickhunterx on Jul 8, 2011 11:05:41 GMT -5
Frost Breath and Snow Storm seem to function the same other than the damage and freeze chance.
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Post by a11star on Jul 8, 2011 19:19:14 GMT -5
Frost Breath and Snow Storm seem to function the same other than the damage and freeze chance. From someone that's played a true DPS class, Inferno, there is a big difference between them. Essentially, it's the same choice in that class: choose an AoE attack or a more damaging consistent spray. For DPS Inferno, you pick Pyre which is the same as SnowStorm, and it's meant to regenerate energy by burning mobs around you. However, for a tank, your blocking is what regenerates your energy. And while you're blocking you lure bad guys to you and can use Frost Breath to kill the mob tailing you. Just my two cents: also, I've watched two Glacier builds go down in a PvP fight using that Snowstorm and not nailing a shot on the other guy because they move out of its area. With Frost Breath you can at least give chase... |
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Post by maverickhunterx on Jul 8, 2011 23:39:09 GMT -5
I see. I decided to follow the advice in your thread and selected Snow Storm for solo play. Actually, there are other reasons why I should choose that: 1. My character is in full helmet, and there's no way he can blow ice from there. 2. I don't want my character to blow. ;D 3. Lastly, it's the rule of cool. |
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Post by eighto on Jul 9, 2011 2:32:25 GMT -5
Updated the stat recommendations in the guide to reflect that PRE is not needed to tank. thanks for the guide poochiehellhound! i actualy don't see PRE mentioned anywhere in the guide. i assume your recommendation to not use PRE must be implied by the lack of mention. can you please give an indication of why the glacier seems to be the only tank that doesnt require this Stat. thanks |
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Post by PoochieHellhound on Jul 9, 2011 11:40:11 GMT -5
Updated the stat recommendations in the guide to reflect that PRE is not needed to tank. thanks for the guide poochiehellhound! i actualy don't see PRE mentioned anywhere in the guide. i assume your recommendation to not use PRE must be implied by the lack of mention. can you please give an indication of why the glacier seems to be the only tank that doesnt require this Stat. thanks I've heard from experienced tanks that the threat increase from PRE isn't worth the investment. Most Freeform Tanks use PRE to empower self heals such as Bountiful Chi Resurgence or Conviction. Sure, if you find an upgrade that increases your PRE and is better than the one you're wearing, more power to you, go for it. But I wouldn't spend talents on it. EDIT: I added to the comment about the level 11 choice, mentioning that Frost Breath has access to Challenging Strikes and thus is better for tanking than Snow Storm. |
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Post by taanstaf1 on Jul 12, 2011 10:14:55 GMT -5
Sorry, long story short, I am following this PvP build you're conjuring up and was wondering if you could update with the points you just made (although I think I followed the conversation close enough)? Will do sir. My selection for points remains the same as Poochie's, except for taking the DEX filler points before the REC filler points, though it doesn't matter because I'll have the same ones at 40 that he described. The big difference will come in gear stat selection, in which I will value DEX as the most important stat after the two super-stats, and maybe even at the expensive of some Endurance. This build won't really shine in PVP without some juicy crit to feed Ice Sheath. In terms of success I'm having, this now seems to be the single most dominant build in any BG I'm playing, both in the 20s and 30s brackets of Archetype pvp, be it Bash or Cage Match. Taking Teleport has made it almost inconceivable that I ever die unless trained down by a group that includes at least one Behemoth (for the stun chain). I've never actually done a BASH game where I didn't come in first after 45k.... whatever-the-pvp-currency-is-called... and it's actually proving very efficient to level through PVP itself. The only two classes that even pose a realistic threat to a Teleport pvp spec Glacier seem to be Behemoths (And only then if you're up high so they can kill you with Fall Damage, anything else you can escape) or a Tempest freecasting. Even Soldiers and Pyro's can't keep up the DPS race (Though I already have 3/3 defensive talent, so I'm sure the better-than-50% mitigation is helping enormously) and don't accomplish much. A quick tip to anyone following this discussion: You are the ultimate teleport-killer. Frustrated at that stupid Soldier teleporting away like a baby as soon as he hits 75% hp? Annoyed the last guy left in the rage-quit emptied Cage Match is just blinking around the edge of the map? Bring one of these Glaciers. The ingredients necessary to ensure TP kills are Nailed To The GRound on Shatter, and Crippling Challenge on Ice Cage. Just wait for them to start fading out, Ice Cage, double Ice Blast, Shatter as they fade back in, double Ice Blast, second Ice Cage, Ice Blast. If you have teleport, and they're somehow still alive after that combo (Why are you trying to kill teleporting Behemoths anyway?) then just calmly wait for them to teleport, keep an eye on where they head while fading out, and TP after them for what should be the kill. So far this has been successful far beyond expectations, and a lot of fun. That said, put Ice Blast on a hotkey you don't like, you're going to break that key with this build. |
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Post by a11star on Jul 12, 2011 10:26:11 GMT -5
Sorry, long story short, I am following this PvP build you're conjuring up and was wondering if you could update with the points you just made (although I think I followed the conversation close enough)? Will do sir. My selection for points remains the same as Poochie's, except for taking the DEX filler points before the REC filler points, though it doesn't matter because I'll have the same ones at 40 that he described. The big difference will come in gear stat selection, in which I will value DEX as the most important stat after the two super-stats, and maybe even at the expensive of some Endurance. This build won't really shine in PVP without some juicy crit to feed Ice Sheath. In terms of success I'm having, this now seems to be the single most dominant build in any BG I'm playing, both in the 20s and 30s brackets of Archetype pvp, be it Bash or Cage Match. Taking Teleport has made it almost inconceivable that I ever die unless trained down by a group that includes at least one Behemoth (for the stun chain). I've never actually done a BASH game where I didn't come in first after 45k.... whatever-the-pvp-currency-is-called... and it's actually proving very efficient to level through PVP itself. The only two classes that even pose a realistic threat to a Teleport pvp spec Glacier seem to be Behemoths (And only then if you're up high so they can kill you with Fall Damage, anything else you can escape) or a Tempest freecasting. Even Soldiers and Pyro's can't keep up the DPS race (Though I already have 3/3 defensive talent, so I'm sure the better-than-50% mitigation is helping enormously) and don't accomplish much. A quick tip to anyone following this discussion: You are the ultimate teleport-killer. Frustrated at that stupid Soldier teleporting away like a baby as soon as he hits 75% hp? Annoyed the last guy left in the rage-quit emptied Cage Match is just blinking around the edge of the map? Bring one of these Glaciers. The ingredients necessary to ensure TP kills are Nailed To The GRound on Shatter, and Crippling Challenge on Ice Cage. Just wait for them to start fading out, Ice Cage, double Ice Blast, Shatter as they fade back in, double Ice Blast, second Ice Cage, Ice Blast. If you have teleport, and they're somehow still alive after that combo (Why are you trying to kill teleporting Behemoths anyway?) then just calmly wait for them to teleport, keep an eye on where they head while fading out, and TP after them for what should be the kill. So far this has been successful far beyond expectations, and a lot of fun. That said, put Ice Blast on a hotkey you don't like, you're going to break that key with this build. Thank you so much for responding back, your advice means so much! I agree with you on all points stated, the only time I've come close to losing was when someone tried to fly away and I didn't have Nailed to the Ground yet, they healed and I had to chip all their HP away a second time. I need to look into some gear for the DEX stat, I really do like shooting crits most of the time, too... |
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Post by Zed Brightlander on Jul 30, 2011 18:19:29 GMT -5
- bounce -
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Post by nightwalker on Aug 21, 2011 14:13:59 GMT -5
I really think if you're a ice spammer, take Frost Breath, since it chills more then Snow Storm. But if you plan to tank, take Snow Storm so you can deal some DoT while absorbing damage.
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Post by quettzlcoatl on Aug 21, 2011 17:32:23 GMT -5
Really awesome guide:-)
In my opinion, I'd recommend snow storm over frost breath. As a glacier, youve got loads of survivability, and the DoT element really takes advantage of that. If push comes to shove, u can just turtle up behind ice shield after casting the power, and watch critters collapse around u:-D
One thing, though, I'm level 25 and I'm struggling to find an effective use for shatter. Does anyone know a tactic that uses it? Soz if I'm just being stupid.
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This bugger can fight ! nice to have as a backup...and my only friend in the whole wide world ...*sniff
