p
Sidekick
Posts: 14
|
Post by p on Feb 4, 2011 21:25:09 GMT -5
Cryptic adopted the F2P model because it's proven to be successful if executed correctly. Turbine has been making a killing on DDO and LOTRO since those titles went free. True, now if only Cryptic realised the turbine model was actually F2P not "extended trial YOU BETTER SUBSCRIBE!"
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 5, 2011 7:17:45 GMT -5
So clearly the bottom line is that Cryptic needs to figure out what population they're happy with and then provide whatever is needed to get that many players to continue to play CO over any other current MMO and future ones. I think my perspective is fine, Cryptic needs to offer enough to get people in the door and, basically, hold the best thing their product offers for ransom like every other F2P model does. For CO, it's freeform. Offering the best you have for free and selling the left overs has not worked in any market that I've studied or am aware of. And that's what they are doing, holding the best piece for ransom. IF they do F2P like other companies have, their model will shift as the market dictates. It's been less than 2 weeks so far and according to the few dev posts touching on the subject they are doing well. So that's Cryptic's commentary. Personally, I've been running my own SG for a while now and when F2P launched I opened it up to silvers, no questions asked. I've also been accepting nearly every team invite from people I don't know (usually new silvers) where as I used to be invisible to all but friends and SG members. From my experience a lot of these silvers (over 3 dozen that I can verify), after running missions with my freeforms, subscribed to the game and about 3 purchased a LTS. If this pattern persists with other people and these subscribers stick around for a few months and use the C-store I'd call that as cryptic making the right call. Unfortunately, we have to wait and see how everything pans out in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 5, 2011 13:20:14 GMT -5
So clearly the bottom line is that Cryptic needs to figure out what population they're happy with and then provide whatever is needed to get that many players to continue to play CO over any other current MMO and future ones. I think my perspective is fine, Cryptic needs to offer enough to get people in the door and, basically, hold the best thing their product offers for ransom like every other F2P model does. For CO, it's freeform. Offering the best you have for free and selling the left overs has not worked in any market that I've studied or am aware of. And that's what they are doing, holding the best piece for ransom. That's not true. Most F2P models don't have a subscription option. The closest model, which undoubtedly Cryptic is trying to mimic, is Turbine's fremium model. However, Turbine doesn't hold their product for ransom from the F2P players. Everything Turbine's games offers can be bought piecemeal. Holding a major aspect of gameplay for subscription/LTS only (without offering F2P players a way to buy piecemeal) is Cryptic's own idea...and maybe SOE's idea, according to people who tried the EQ2 F2P. No other F2P model is doing what Cryptic (and SOE) is doing. I guess Cryptic is in good company when SOE also thinks the model is a good idea ;p I guess only time will tell how well Cryptic's "version" of the fremium model works once all the big boy AAA titles come out later this year and next. Personally though, unless the majority of those AAA titles pulls a "FFXIV," CO's subcription offering will not be able to compete in terms of content, gameplay, graphics, population, IP, etc. They would have to make more and more things either free or piecemeal in their cash shop as an incentive to get people to stay.
|
|
|
Post by dysmetria on Feb 5, 2011 15:00:51 GMT -5
That's not true. Most F2P models don't have a subscription option. The closest model, which undoubtedly Cryptic is trying to mimic, is Turbine's fremium model. Most F2P games are not converting to FP2 after being exclusively a subscription service. I don't think Cryptic is trying to mimic Turbine's successful conversions however, instead they seem to be imitating SOE's EQ2 F2P which seems far less successful.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2011 19:00:34 GMT -5
I would like to remind everyone participating in this thread that PERSONAL attacks/insults are not allowed. It is fine if you disagree with what someone says and explain why. But you may NOT say anything negative about the PERSON you disagree with.
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 7, 2011 8:29:48 GMT -5
That's not true. Most F2P models don't have a subscription option. I didn't say they did. I said they hold the best piece(s) for ransom which simple means a price, which they do. That is true. Piecemeal = for a price = for ransom, which is my point. My point isn't piecemeal vs. subscription, it's free vs. for a price. however, there are certain things that likely won't be available for piecemeal both so as to not tick off the existing subscriber base and due to the price standards they've already put in place. You're debating a point that wasn't made (subscriptions vs. piecemeal) I'd argue that THE big boy AAA title is already out and has been for quite some time. CO did OK in its shadow (I'm noticing people in my SG that went MIA for a bit returning from its latest expansion to play CO again). DCUO was supposed to be the next CO killer...going by the numbers I've seen, that's not happening either. In other words, there's always the notion that when something new and shiny comes to market, something else is automatically going to fail. While entirely possible, it often doesn't pan out that way. We will see. We'll definitely see what they'll have to do in a few months when the "new and shiny" of F2P wears off. Adding more things to the C-store was already the plan anyway and there are already way more things there now than what we had available before F2P came around. but there are certain things that are likely to not be offered free or piecemeal for reasons stated multiple times, not least of which is aggravating the existing community of players who have kept the game running this long. Offering what some paid $200-$300 for, for free should be a no brainer for Cryptic...at this point anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2011 10:22:28 GMT -5
Turbine allows free users to permanently buy everything (with one-time purchases) that subscribers get. That is incorrect. I'm not sure if you play LOTRO, but it has something called "monster play" which is like a mini-faction where you can play as the bad guys, and a lot of people enjoy it. However, it is exclusive to subscribers and cannot be purchased from the store. I have no doubt there are people who think that should be added to the store, but those people havent convinced Turbine to do it yet.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 7, 2011 22:26:26 GMT -5
Piecemeal = for a price = for ransom, which is my point. My point isn't piecemeal vs. subscription, it's free vs. for a price. however, there are certain things that likely won't be available for piecemeal both so as to not tick off the existing subscriber base and due to the price standards they've already put in place. It was made when we're talking about the F2P model. One of the main points of Turbine's fremium model is the ability to buy things in piecemeal. What I took ransom to mean is that certain parts of CO (in this case, the main "hook") is completely off limits to F2P players. A F2P player buying things piecemeal is still considered a F2P player. So, actually "free" should be considered as buying piecemeal. In other words, there's always the notion that when something new and shiny comes to market, something else is automatically going to fail. While entirely possible, it often doesn't pan out that way. We will see. The main issue is the sheer number of AAA titles coming CO's way, each with their own "hooks". Star Wars is going to be a huge non-fantasy MMO from a good company. Guild Wars 2 has persistent worlds now and is B2P, which is rather unique among AAA offerings. Tera and Blade&Soul are supposedly fast, action MMOs. Rift's beta is going well. So, while DCUO stunk it up, not every CO player (myself included) is completely stuck with having to play a super hero MMO. For me, I generally prefer non-fantasy MMOs, which is why I liked Phantasy Star, CoH, and now CO, but will definitely give SWKOTR a try. but there are certain things that are likely to not be offered free or piecemeal for reasons stated multiple times, not least of which is aggravating the existing community of players who have kept the game running this long. Offering what some paid $200-$300 for, for free should be a no brainer for Cryptic...at this point anyway. The point of the fremium model is to separate all the pieces that gold/LTS members have paid for in individual components and let the F2P players pay for only those that they want. What F2P players don't want is to pay for a huge bundle of junk to get a few parts that they do like (which will be different for each player). Not everyone will use all the features that gold/LTS members get. Not everyone will even use all the power sets in freeform, which is why I suggested selling individual power sets per character slot. That is incorrect. I'm not sure if you play LOTRO, but it has something called "monster play" which is like a mini-faction where you can play as the bad guys, and a lot of people enjoy it. However, it is exclusive to subscribers and cannot be purchased from the store. I have no doubt there are people who think that should be added to the store, but those people havent convinced Turbine to do it yet. Ah, I stand corrected. I remember that now. I will have to modify and say that LOTRO's main "hook" isn't held for ransom then. Also, I believe that all of DDO is available in piecemeal.
|
|
|
Post by bladefist on Feb 8, 2011 3:35:14 GMT -5
Ah, I stand corrected. I remember that now. I will have to modify and say that LOTRO's main "hook" isn't held for ransom then. Also, I believe that all of DDO is available in piecemeal. DDO doesn't have anything about it that's unique enough to warrant being a subscriber only bonus. CO has unparalleled character customization options and LOTRO has Monster Play. DDO was also Turbine's first foray into the F2P market so a more "friendly" F2P model was used.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 8, 2011 12:07:24 GMT -5
DDO doesn't have anything about it that's unique enough to warrant being a subscriber only bonus. CO has unparalleled character customization options and LOTRO has Monster Play. DDO was also Turbine's first foray into the F2P market so a more "friendly" F2P model was used. Actually, I would consider Perfect World, Aion, and CoH as having comparable, if not better, customization. Even if DDO didn't have a "hook," the idea still stands that F2P could buy everything in individual components if wished, which is why they did so well. CO could literally break their "unparalleled character customization" into many components and sell them off separately. They'll probably end up making more money overall, as people will have an incentive to shell out money for exactly what they like. Some may like certain costume sets over others. Some may like power tinting. Some may like certain power sets over others. The list goes on. Cryptic already partially did this with the special traveling powers and costume sets. They might as well go all the way.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 8, 2011 12:17:39 GMT -5
Even if DDO didn't have a "hook," the idea still stands that F2P could buy everything in individual components if wished, which is why they did so well. And yet LOTRO has done even better, and as previously mentioned they with-hold some aspects of gameplay from the store. So should Cryptic try to follow DDO's example which is good(financially speaking), or LOTRO's example which is better(also financially speaking)?
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 8, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Even if DDO didn't have a "hook," the idea still stands that F2P could buy everything in individual components if wished, which is why they did so well. And yet LOTRO has done even better, and as previously mentioned they with-hold some aspects of gameplay from the store. So should Cryptic try to follow DDO's example which is good(financially speaking), or LOTRO's example which is better(also financially speaking)? LOTRO also has a lot more content to offer the F2P players in the cash shop, so withholding that one aspect isn't as noticeable. That only represents a small percentage of the game. With CO, the lack of content (or perhaps freeform is considered content) means that a huge majority has been withheld from the F2P players. That's where all these complaints of an "unlimited trial" comes from.
|
|
p
Sidekick
Posts: 14
|
Post by p on Feb 9, 2011 0:46:17 GMT -5
the DDO vs LOTRO thing fails on a couple points one being the popularity of one of the IP's to a more casual crowd is higher (movies made LOTR YAY while D&D is still largely the realm of the nerd) and potentially player base size (LOTR being more socially acceptable very probably has a higher player base)....neither of which have to do with the model employed but having a larger player base probably helps a lot more in the $$$ department.
Also the with held monsterplay is PVP only, PVP by default doesn't appeal to a large number of players so wouldn't factor into the majority of the player base.
The LOTRO and DDO vs CO thing is bad too considering free players have access to the same classes as paying players in LOTRO (since free or subbing both have to pay for the two premium classes if they want them all other clases and races are free to everyone) and DDO all classes and races can be purchased with a one time fee.....obviously not the case with CO.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 17, 2011 18:19:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by theironbat on Feb 18, 2011 0:20:39 GMT -5
The f2p style is where an MMO can flourish if done correct. I still play a game called Runes of Magic, a REAL FREE TO PLAY game, with every new instance released completely free. Its just the marketing they do for the cash shop is what really matters. It really comes down if Champions Online is smart about what they do. If this f2p thing is a last ditch effort to milk it for what its worth, then this game will come crashing down. But if taken the right measures, f2p can be turned into a great choice and profitable all around. I think new instances should be free as well as new archtypes. And the whole forum thing is really retarded. I have hopes for the better when it comes to everything, but when I see them blocking the forums it makes me feel doubtful
|
|