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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Sept 8, 2011 13:46:21 GMT -5
I have no interest in the subjective value of an LTS. Then there is nothing further to discuss here and never was as the value of any item for sale is entirely subject to its worth to the prospective buyer compared to the asking price of the seller. Anyone involved in sales on any successful level knows this. In other words, people buy things that are "worth it" to them. Those last four words are key as they denote the subjective nature of purchases which is the whole point and what drives competition, price changes and everything else in a free market type of system. I didn't read the rest of what you posted and won't unless there's something objectionable in there that someone decides to report. Carry on people.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 13:58:50 GMT -5
I'm really done with this "discussion" now. Your last few posts have been nothing but very thinly veiled implied arguments from authority that attempt to point out the very same thing in other people's posts. The hypocrisy is thick enough to cut with a knife. Seriously this has gone on long enough. If you want to disagree that's fine but continuously deconstructing other people's statements into something they're not is not how you go about doing it. tl;dr We're all in disagreement and you're trying very hard to point out that everyone's point of view is ridiculous and invalid. While ridiculous is in the eye of the beholder, absolutely nothing that's been said thus far is invalid.
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Post by squirrelloid on Sept 8, 2011 18:36:46 GMT -5
I have no interest in the subjective value of an LTS. Then there is nothing further to discuss here and never was as the value of any item for sale is entirely subject to its worth to the prospective buyer compared to the asking price of the seller. Anyone involved in sales on any successful level knows this. In other words, people buy things that are "worth it" to them. Those last four words are key as they denote the subjective nature of purchases which is the whole point and what drives competition, price changes and everything else in a free market type of system. And it was worth it to them, then. They already bought. They aren't buying again. The subjective value of a new LTS to them today is zero, because they already purchased. Cryptic is trying to sell stuff *today*. How does perceived value of something already purchased that those buyers have already gotten their money's worth out of matter to cryptic's business plan today? You've never even attempted to make that connection. I'm really done with this "discussion" now. Your last few posts have been nothing but very thinly veiled implied arguments from authority that attempt to point out the very same thing in other people's posts. These words. They don't mean what you think they mean. But I suppose its been pretty obvious that you, either of you, didn't intend to actually consider the arguments of anyone who didn't own an LTS. If you can't be bothered to even consider my arguments on their merits, I'm done here too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 22:58:01 GMT -5
Then there is nothing further to discuss here and never was as the value of any item for sale is entirely subject to its worth to the prospective buyer compared to the asking price of the seller. Anyone involved in sales on any successful level knows this. In other words, people buy things that are "worth it" to them. Those last four words are key as they denote the subjective nature of purchases which is the whole point and what drives competition, price changes and everything else in a free market type of system. And it was worth it to them, then. They already bought. They aren't buying again. The subjective value of a new LTS to them today is zero, because they already purchased. Cryptic is trying to sell stuff *today*. How does perceived value of something already purchased that those buyers have already gotten their money's worth out of matter to cryptic's business plan today? You've never even attempted to make that connection. I'm really done with this "discussion" now. Your last few posts have been nothing but very thinly veiled implied arguments from authority that attempt to point out the very same thing in other people's posts. These words. They don't mean what you think they mean. But I suppose its been pretty obvious that you, either of you, didn't intend to actually consider the arguments of anyone who didn't own an LTS. If you can't be bothered to even consider my arguments on their merits, I'm done here too. So many wrong assumptions. I'll make this brief. A) I don't own a LTS and I don't have to own one to see things from the point of view of someone that does. B) I know exactly what "those words" mean and your continued implications that people in this thread don't know what they're talking about are starting to come off as insulting. C) I've listened to and considered your arguments, I just simply don't agree with you one bit. What you're failing to realize is you yourself aren't considering anyone's arguments but your own. I'll back that up with a summary of your responses in this thread: Someone responds with a disagreement to a point you've made and you've either picked the post apart and reduced it to something it's not or claim the person who made it is ignorant, sometimes it's been both. You're free and entitled to tell me I'm wrong but since the thread has been reduced nonsensical over-analyzing I'm simply gonna agree to disagree with you and urge you to leave the insults at home.
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Post by squirrelloid on Sept 9, 2011 5:15:08 GMT -5
Then show me anywhere that I claimed credentials to be an authority. That's sort of required to present an Argument from Authority.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Sept 9, 2011 6:36:03 GMT -5
Then show me anywhere that I claimed credentials to be an authority. That's sort of required to present an Argument from Authority. You first. The same could be asked of you on the page prior when you first brought up the term in this thread and no one claimed any credentials. Someone asked asked how long you'd played the game. A question is not a claim to credentials. A question is not a claim at all. The question. Oh wow seriously? How long have you been playing this game? The reply. Ad hominem attacks + implied argument from authority, lovely. I don't see any credentials in the question. Anyway, I'm leaving this thread open...for now. My better judgment says there's little left to be discussed but I'm willing to be proven wrong. If the thread continues to stray off topic as it has been I'll have to lock it. I'd rather not. Discuss the topic and as I said a few pages ago try not to discuss the person. Matter of fact, stop trying. Don't. There's a reason I locked the last thread on this same subject.
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Post by squirrelloid on Sept 9, 2011 11:45:10 GMT -5
Last warning. Post on topic or don't post. ~KJ3
Original Poster's Note: post was on topic: re: why that question was an implicit argument from authority. In response to specifically being asked by the preceeding post.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Sept 29, 2011 12:02:21 GMT -5
The topic is "More revenue via freeform for silvers" not who is right in whatever argument. Please post on the actual topic of revenue. ~KJ3
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Post by Brick on Sept 29, 2011 17:28:04 GMT -5
The topic is "More revenue via freeform for silvers" not who is right in whatever argument. Please post on the actual topic of revenue. ~KJ3 I support silvers getting more revenue. Specifically, I support the idea of people giving me (who is silver) more revenue (by gifting me lots of C-Store points). ...I just HAD to say it, Kenpo. Don't get mad, please...
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Sept 29, 2011 18:16:27 GMT -5
OMG, how did I ever not read the title like that. More revenue, via freeform, for silvers. LOL
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Post by Brick on Sept 29, 2011 18:18:26 GMT -5
OMG, how did I ever not read the title like that. More revenue, via freeform, for silvers. LOL Does this mean I don't get the gifted points?
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Post by Jack Sparrow on Sept 29, 2011 18:25:18 GMT -5
Ahem. Anyway. Any silver character that wants to purchase FF slots can already do so; its called a Lifetime subscription. So now the issue is not whether you can do it, but whether you think it costs too much.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Sept 29, 2011 18:48:46 GMT -5
Ahem. Anyway. Any silver character that wants to purchase FF slots can already do so; its called a Lifetime subscription. So now the issue is not whether you can do it, but whether you think it costs too much. You already posted something similar before and this has already been discussed early in the thread. The discussion has moved on to the assumption that yes it does cost too much for that to be the only option and what are possible and plausible alternatives for someone that would be willing to spend some money on one rather than sixteen freeform slots without the vet rewards, costume pieces and other advantages of an LTS. In other words, the discussion is about an À la carte approach.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 21:27:54 GMT -5
Archetype Customization package. Opens up a couple of customization options for AT characters. Allows the choices to be changed via retcons as well. One time purchase Includes: Ability to select superstats, possibly the innate talent as well and allows for power color changing Price: 2000 Cryptic points ($25 value)
I know a lot of people would scoff at the idea but the ATs would still be bound to their intended role and choice of powers. I don't immediately see how it would break anything and the price is, I think, reasonable for what you'd get on a one-time purchase.
This would be what I'd submit to Cryptic if I felt it had a chance of seeing the light of day.
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Post by mustrumridcully on Sept 30, 2011 4:30:25 GMT -5
Startrek Online is going F2P right now as well. There is nothing that compares quite to Free-Form in Champions Online in STO. And neither are their comparitive restrictions in STO.
But what STO has is now "premium ships". For once, all the Retrofits and ship variants that were sold via the C-Store. And now also some Tier x.5 ships that are better than other ships of their tier.
I think STO simply had the "archetypes" built in the system from the start, and payed archetypes where then introduced with the Excelsior Retrofit, basically.
What does that mean? I don't think Cryptic will ever be realistically willing to give silvers Free-Forms. That invalidates the entire Archetype system. That is a something valuable they can sell players. In addition, the limited powers used might intentionally rarely include heals - this encourages buying C-Store heals. All of that would be undermined with Free-Forms. I suppose if the bean counters at Cryptic would believe they could away with it, they might have removed the Free-Form system entirely, but of course, that would just cost them basically all subscriptions.
But I think that doesn't have to mean that Archetypes need to be quite as limited as they are. There may be interesting, alternative options:
1) Add more power choices for each level. 2) Sell power visuals customization. (They probably won't go away with selling people an entirely new AT with the same powers as another one, just with different visuals, so this is a potential way to raise revenue with no risk of losing anything.) 3) Potentially add some kind of "multi-archetyping" system, where you can mix & match powers from different Archetypes (highly limited, of course), encouraging people to buy an Archetype just for one power they want in their build.
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