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Post by Zed Brightlander on Feb 4, 2011 0:55:34 GMT -5
Fair enough. "Denied" would be a better word then instead of "taken away". As far as I'm aware, every F2P game that uses this hybrid model denies certain aspects of gameplay to free players. For example, in LOTRO "monster play"(which is like a mini faction) is exclusive to subscribers and is not available for purchase in the store. From my short time on DDO I can tell you that f2p offered fewer points to apply to a PC's stats in creation making them weaker for solo, but quite playable if you were willing to play on easy to normal. One guy experimented with a Min/max Barb to see if he could complete every mission on Elite. His results were -- mixed. As someone who is most likely going to be a casual player, I kind of wish there was a Casual level option. Constant dying can become tedious.
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2011 1:06:32 GMT -5
As far as I'm aware, every F2P game that uses this hybrid model denies certain aspects of gameplay to free players. For example, in LOTRO "monster play"(which is like a mini faction) is exclusive to subscribers and is not available for purchase in the store. From my short time on DDO I can tell you that f2p offered fewer points to apply to a PC's stats in creation making them weaker for solo, but quite playable if you were willing to play on easy to normal. One guy experimented with a Min/max Barb to see if he could complete every mission on Elite. His results were -- mixed. As someone who is most likely going to be a casual player, I kind of wish there was a Casual level option. Constant dying can become tedious. I'm not sure whether your last sentence is referring to DDO or Champs. If you are referring to DDO, I cant really comment as I dont have alot of experience with that game. However, if you are referring to Champs I have found solo to be quite easy with my blade and behemoth.
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Post by jestersmiles on Feb 4, 2011 1:33:12 GMT -5
From my short time on DDO I can tell you that f2p offered fewer points to apply to a PC's stats in creation making them weaker for solo, but quite playable if you were willing to play on easy to normal. One guy experimented with a Min/max Barb to see if he could complete every mission on Elite. His results were -- mixed. As someone who is most likely going to be a casual player, I kind of wish there was a Casual level option. Constant dying can become tedious. I'm not sure whether your last sentence is referring to DDO or Champs. If you are referring to DDO, I cant really comment as I dont have alot of experience with that game. However, if you are referring to Champs I have found solo to be quite easy with my blade and behemoth. I am sure the decrease drop rate of orbs does not help the fact that he dying xD.I notice way back when i was a Sub the orbs drops where higher , now it kind hard to get one xD.
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Post by Zed Brightlander on Feb 4, 2011 2:27:30 GMT -5
From my short time on DDO I can tell you that f2p offered fewer points to apply to a PC's stats in creation making them weaker for solo, but quite playable if you were willing to play on easy to normal. One guy experimented with a Min/max Barb to see if he could complete every mission on Elite. His results were -- mixed. As someone who is most likely going to be a casual player, I kind of wish there was a Casual level option. Constant dying can become tedious. I'm not sure whether your last sentence is referring to DDO or Champs. If you are referring to DDO, I cant really comment as I dont have alot of experience with that game. However, if you are referring to Champs I have found solo to be quite easy with my blade and behemoth. I was talking about CO for the casual play. Yeah, so far my behemoth is doing fine as well. He does die though. About once a mission he get over whelmed and misses his block once too often and - BAM! POW! ZAP! Down for the count. But he returns and finishes, he gets his win and his hero points remain at 5. I was talking about the other Arches though. Webspeller is constant dying. Poor girl has no points left. She's like the Karate Kid at the end of the big contest. She's badly hurt, but there's no Mister Miyagi to rub his hands and work his magic. { sigh } She was a test toon to see if I liked the arche. She was never meant to go the distance. I was thinking Ice to replace her, not a blade. But there is always tomorrow.
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Post by poopyhead on Feb 4, 2011 3:51:48 GMT -5
Even though I personally don't mind the ATs so far (lvl 9), I do think that CO will eventually make freeform slots purchasable. I think that the current gold members have their thinking all wrong. "Free" doesn't mean that people should just enjoy what they are given. It means that these players are spending time away from other games, which will be even more competitive when Tera, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars, Blade & Soul, Rift, Secret World, etc. come out. So in effect, free players can demand alot because they can simply GTFO and play the next new MMO. If silver players have to subscribe and pay the same amount as they would for say SWTOR, how many people would choose to play CO? That's why Cryptic needs to offer us an incentive (in this case, it would be financial, as they wouldn't be able to compete gameplay/content wise with the upcoming AAA games) to even sniff in the direction of their games. Think about it, even if CO isn't making as much money with a silver player, that player is providing a service to Cryptic by increasing the server population and preventing the game from being empty.
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Post by stuffinator on Feb 4, 2011 5:26:48 GMT -5
Think about it, even if CO isn't making as much money with a silver player, that player is providing a service to Cryptic by increasing the server population and preventing the game from being empty. That sounds like the players just play the game so that cryptic has populated servers. ^^
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 8:00:29 GMT -5
If they make free form slots purchasable the game will tank unless the cost and variety of C-store items increases to compensate. And then the game will likely still tank because raising prices beyond a certain point decreases interest in sales.
It's been said repeatedly (mostly by players who have been in the game a considerable amount of time to know the ins and outs and what the game has to offer from start to finish...) that the game's main draw is the ability to fully customize your own character.
If they sell that as a one off purchase, two things will happen.
1) The value of a subscription with drop. Yeah it gets adventure packs and costume pieces but those things are absolutely paltry next to the ability to make your own character exactly to your specification. There's a reason the games tag line is "be the hero you want to be".
2) Lifetime subscribers will raise all hell. As it stands today silver players can play the entire game with the exception of 2 adventure packs. They have access to most of the same costume pieces paying (as in subscribed players do). Giving them access to a one off payment for free form slots gives them a lifetime sub to the game in essence. Sure, they'll have less character slots initially and less costume pieces, but by and large they would now have access to well over 90% of what a subscription to the game is about for the low low price of a character slot. That slot would have to be prohibatively expensive to encourage the subscription option...and prohibatively expensive defeats the purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 9:01:53 GMT -5
If they make free form slots purchasable the game will tank unless the cost and variety of C-store items increases to compensate. And then the game will likely still tank because raising prices beyond a certain point decreases interest in sales. It's been said repeatedly (mostly by players who have been in the game a considerable amount of time to know the ins and outs and what the game has to offer from start to finish...) that the game's main draw is the ability to fully customize your own character. If they sell that as a one off purchase, two things will happen. 1) The value of a subscription with drop. Yeah it gets adventure packs and costume pieces but those things are absolutely paltry next to the ability to make your own character exactly to your specification. There's a reason the games tag line is "be the hero you want to be". 2) Lifetime subscribers will raise all hell. As it stands today silver players can play the entire game with the exception of 2 adventure packs. They have access to most of the same costume pieces paying (as in subscribed players do). Giving them access to a one off payment for free form slots gives them a lifetime sub to the game in essence. Sure, they'll have less character slots initially and less costume pieces, but by and large they would now have access to well over 90% of what a subscription to the game is about for the low low price of a character slot. That slot would have to be prohibatively expensive to encourage the subscription option...and prohibatively expensive defeats the purpose. ^ This with the force of a thousand exploding suns. Bottom line. If you want free-form characters, subscribe.
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 4, 2011 10:22:24 GMT -5
Giving them access to a one off payment for free form slots gives them a lifetime sub to the game in essence. Sure, they'll have less character slots initially and less costume pieces, but by and large they would now have access to well over 90% of what a subscription to the game is about for the low low price of a character slot. Not to mention that with the number of retcons given out by Cryptic having just one slot will allow them to play a vast number of different toons over the course of time.
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Post by Pion on Feb 4, 2011 11:05:03 GMT -5
The problem with this entire "Debate" is that it's based on assumptions that have no verifiable proof at all.
It basically comes down to different people have different priorities.
Any Silver player who is getting what they want is fine with the ATs.
Any Silver player who is not finds the entire system unfair and poorly thought out because they aren't being catered to and assume enough other silver players feel the same way enough to cause Cryptic to lose money.
Apparently (meaning according to what we currently see, which is always subject to change) this is not the case since the current CO population has multiplied many times over.
On the other hand, as Rox and many others have pointed out many times before, myself included, the fact that freeform archetypes are important enough for some of you to get upset over proves they are something that is coveted and therefore implies it is something people are willing to pay money for as demonstrated by the many Gold and LTS accounts still currently active.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. Don't get me wrong, if I was in your shoes I'd be all about selling the freeform AT for whatever I could afford at the time in order to maximize my pleasure, but let's not for one second pretend that you're getting cheated in some way, because if you are, the only one cheating you is yourself since you can stop playing at any time.
Just because DDO did it this way or LoTRO did it that way doesn't mean squat. CO is a different game with different priorities and different mechanics, and therefore different priorities.
There is already a cost for Freeform AT's, just some aren't willing or able to pay it.
You can rent it for $15 a month or you can buy it for $300, and either way it comes with a bunch of other stuff thrown in.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 11:49:01 GMT -5
Not to mention that with the number of retcons given out by Cryptic having just one slot will allow them to play a vast number of different toons over the course of time. Ayup.
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Post by zansatsu on Feb 4, 2011 11:49:54 GMT -5
I don't really care if I'm ever able to buy a single free-form character slot or not, what I do care about however is the games survival.
Since this is a good game (well, decent as from what I've seen but I can't see it all since I'm only a silver member), I want it to survive to be able to at least knock lotro off it's piedestal (the game sucks now thanks to the worthless f2p system they have).
However I've taken notice to something that isn't very pleasant to see and it's how as Silver members asking for a bit more, we see several gold members coming to these forums to nag and whine on us because they can't do it on their own forums since we can't post there.
The community is completely split up and it's only thanks to a few gold members that we can actually get our voices heard on those forums, this isn't good for the game, let alone for the community around it.
At least make the official forums accessible to post on for the silver members, that wouldn't really cost cryptic anything and it isn't exactly flashy. It's not exactly awesome to be shoved off the official forums and into this, more or less inactive, junkyard. Just because we're silver members we shouldn't be treated as lowlife scum and have everything we say be contradicted by everyone who thinks they know better than us.
Not that they'd come check things up here on the "silver forums" anyway, we're not paying, why waste the time...
Modded by KenpoJuJitsu3 - Belittling the gold members taking their own time to help here and circumventing the profanity filter are against the rules here. This is a first warning. Future posts in violation will be completely deleted.
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Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 11:53:40 GMT -5
You can rent it for $15 a month or you can buy it for $300, and either way it comes with a bunch of other stuff thrown in. Actualy you can rent it for a lot less than $15 a month if you buy gameboxes, at least people have been claiming you can use more than one "free month" included with them for the same account and they have been selling for $5-$8 all over the web. Likewise the lifetime membership is $239.99 at the moment. Though I believe that sale ends today.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 12:09:32 GMT -5
You can rent it for $15 a month or you can buy it for $300, and either way it comes with a bunch of other stuff thrown in. Actualy you can rent it for a lot less than $15 a month if you buy gameboxes, at least people have been claiming you can use more than one "free month" included with them for the same account and they have been selling for $5-$8 all over the web. Likewise the lifetime membership is $239.99 at the moment. Though I believe that sale ends today. Unless something has changed recently this is still true.
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 4, 2011 12:14:12 GMT -5
Aaaallright we need to clear up a few things here... I don't really care if I'm ever able to buy a single free-form character slot or not, what I do care about however is the games survival. As do we, which is why many of us (I'm not the first) have shown the math behind our reasonings. From our best assumptions and understandings of the marketing sides of things plus experience with the game we are fairly sure that offering freeform slots on the Cstore would be a bad idea...from a purely business side of things. However I've taken notice to something that isn't very pleasant to see and it's how as Silver members asking for a bit more, we see several gold members coming to these forums to nag and whine on us because they can't do it on their own forums since we can't post there. It's unfortunate that you think that. We are not nagging...and aren't whining...and definitely not trying to "punish" silver members. We have the best in mind for all. Which is where arguments can spur from. Each has their own opinion about what's best for the game. Some from experiences and others from pure theory. Either way you shouldn't throw all Gold members under the bus for a simple debate. The community is completely split up and it's only thanks to a few gold members that we can actually get our voices heard on those forums, this isn't good for the game, let alone for the community around it. At least make the official forums accessible to post on for the silver members, that wouldn't really cost cryptic anything and it isn't exactly flashy. It's not exactly awesome to be shoved off the official forums and into this, more or less inactive, junkyard. Also remember that it was us gold members that created this forum for you. As well as fought with thread after thread to try and get Cryptic to open up a Silver forum. Going back to the business side of things they've said they just don't have the manpower to operate the influx of thread that could be created by an infinite number of free accounts. You said yourself you want the business to survive, this is the way they believe they can. It sux but maybe over time they will have the man power with all this new population. Just because we're silver members we shouldn't be treated as lowlife scum and have everything we say be contradicted by everyone who thinks they know better than us. Not that they'd come check things up here on the "silver forums" anyway, we're not paying, why waste the time... Now THAT, my friend, is uncalled for. No one has been calling names or has said you're scum. You need to calm down and evaluate your position here. That said, one thing has been confusing me. If y'all are so willing to pay money for a free form character why not just sub? There are many places to by a key for $5 and it comes with a free month. Add to that you get about a $5 stipend of Atari points (or whatever they're called now) you can play for free. You can also apply as many keys to an account as you want. It's not my fault if you don't want to take the time to look into these things. And if you're too lazy to do that every month then buy a lifetime subscription and never worry about it again. Anywayz, I think I'm done here. Excuse my long post but I don't like words being put in my mouth. Modded to remove violation in quoted segment - KJ3
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