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Post by zansatsu on Feb 4, 2011 12:16:05 GMT -5
Modded by KenpoJuJitsu3 - Belittling the gold members taking their own time to help here and circumventing the profanity filter are against the rules here. This is a first warning. Future posts in violation will be completely deleted. I'm sorry I fail to see how this is belittling since it's true... it feels like some gold members only go here to vent out their own depressions on us or something. Oh and also, I'd like to know how am I circumventing the profanity filter? I merely censored the profanity on my own...
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 12:19:53 GMT -5
Modded by KenpoJuJitsu3 - Belittling the gold members taking their own time to help here and circumventing the profanity filter are against the rules here. This is a first warning. Future posts in violation will be completely deleted. I'm sorry I fail to see how this is belittling since it's true... it feels like some gold members only go here to vent out their own depressions on us or something. Oh and also, I'd like to know how am I circumventing the profanity filter? I merely censored the profanity on my own... I'm not going to argue with you about being modded, it's pretty clear cut. Moderation stands, continue discussion on the topic if you so choose.
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Post by Pion on Feb 4, 2011 12:20:48 GMT -5
I don't really care if I'm ever able to buy a single free-form character slot or not, what I do care about however is the games survival. Since this is a good game (well, decent as from what I've seen but I can't see it all since I'm only a silver member), I want it to survive to be able to at least knock lotro off it's piedestal (the game sucks now thanks to the worthless f2p system they have). However I've taken notice to something that isn't very pleasant to see and it's how as Silver members asking for a bit more, we see several gold members coming to these forums to nag and whine on us because they can't do it on their own forums since we can't post there. The community is completely split up and it's only thanks to a few gold members that we can actually get our voices heard on those forums, this isn't good for the game, let alone for the community around it. At least make the official forums accessible to post on for the silver members, that wouldn't really cost cryptic anything and it isn't exactly flashy. It's not exactly awesome to be shoved off the official forums and into this, more or less inactive, junkyard. Just because we're silver members we shouldn't be treated as lowlife scum and have everything we say be contradicted by everyone who thinks they know better than us. I'm gonna shut up about why we should get this and that but in that case you fancy a** gold member "know-it-all"'s should too, you don't know what cryptic would say about these ideas, and since you're paying subscribers you think they'd listen to you, but they don't.... they listen to anyone with ideas and if it's something that could make the game bring in more cash, they'll get on it. Not that they'd come check things up here on the "silver forums" anyway, we're not paying, why waste the time... No offense man, but I think this is a part of the problem, "we see several gold members coming to these forums to nag and whine on us," "The community is completely split up," and then rather than improve anything it ends with you fancy content removedThat's helpful. But moving on, the problem is you're combining seperate issues. The forum access and chat restrictions? Yeah, that's bullcrap and shouldn't stand, we're all pretty much on the same page on that one. The whole Freeform thing? Why is this personal? What does it have to do with Gold and Silver, when there are even Silver players who understand how its financially irresponsible to the LTS option if they offer the same benefits at the same time for a much lower price when the current model is, so far, all two weeks of it, working? And there are a ton of Gold players who would love Freeform AT's to purchasable because it would negate the need for a subscription entirely. Additionally there are Gold players who play AT's regardless because they aren't as difficult or complicated to get to work effectively, they just do, and they provide for team experience as well as a greater PvP environment, and just sub for habbit/APs/Costumes/whatever. The "debate" keeps going around in the same circle, Gold or Silver is irrelevant, it's Pro FFAT sale and Anti FFAT sale, which is less "Anti FFAT sale" than "FFAT sale makes no sense." Pro side says "we want FFAT's" or take the high road "we want freedom of choice." Anti side lists the reasons why it doesn't work based on the current model, and that there is nothing else for Cryptic to sell besides customization and still make a profit short of increasing the price of everything in the C-Store to levels where nobody would buy anything, in addition to the fact that you do have a choice, subscribing. Then comes the "Subscribe or GTFO" argument which is quite honestly retarded. What is difficult to understand about "Customization is the selling point of CO?" Customization is what they sell. The price they sell it for is $15 a month or $300 for life (not counting sales etc.) Would you rather it was a token in the C-Store you could buy that said "Unlimited Freeform AT's Per Available Character Slot For Life Plus Bonuses" that was on sale for 250,000 Cryptic Points? Is it the word "Subscription" that morally offends you? You have a choice, you just don't like it. That's ok, you don't have to, nobody is forcing anything, but people need to get over this "Gold vs Silvers" crap. Nobody. Cares. Would you like more choices? Gravy, so does everyone else, and hopefully they will offer a wide variety of AT's in the future both for sale and for free and CO will continue to improve. But Freeforms? It's the only selling point Cryptic currently has. The next point of "Gold vs Silver" contention is.... Oh wait, that's it. That's all there is. Huh.
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Post by zansatsu on Feb 4, 2011 12:29:29 GMT -5
That said, one thing has been confusing me. If y'all are so willing to pay money for a free form character why not just sub? There are many places to by a key for $5 and it comes with a free month. Add to that you get about a $5 stipend of Atari points (or whatever they're called now) you can play for free. You can also apply as many keys to an account as you want. It's not my fault if you don't want to take the time to look into these things. And if you're too lazy to do that every month then buy a lifetime subscription and never worry about it again. There's only one issue with those many places to buy a $5 key and that is; they're not located in sweden, I have never come across a CO box and probably never will, sadly. And also, why not post the correct email for atari/cryptic so we can unite against the divided community together then, or just start a list of names and send to them.
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 4, 2011 12:44:20 GMT -5
There's only one issue with those many places to buy a $5 key and that is; they're not located in sweden, I have never come across a CO box and probably never will, sadly. Those places I was speaking of are online. Like here: champions-online.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=18 ... well it's not the $5 I spoke of but I have seen them online for such a price in the past. You just need to look around. There're deals to be found.
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Post by poopyhead on Feb 4, 2011 12:55:28 GMT -5
Then comes the "Subscribe or GTFO" argument which is quite honestly retarded. What is difficult to understand about "Customization is the selling point of CO?" Customization is what they sell. The price they sell it for is $15 a month or $300 for life (not counting sales etc.) Would you rather it was a token in the C-Store you could buy that said "Unlimited Freeform AT's Per Available Character Slot For Life Plus Bonuses" that was on sale for 250,000 Cryptic Points? Is it the word "Subscription" that morally offends you? You have a choice, you just don't like it. That's ok, you don't have to, nobody is forcing anything, but people need to get over this "Gold vs Silvers" crap. Nobody. Cares. Would you like more choices? Gravy, so does everyone else, and hopefully they will offer a wide variety of AT's in the future both for sale and for free and CO will continue to improve. But Freeforms? It's the only selling point Cryptic currently has. This is the issue isn't it? There will be a massive...I mean massive influx of AAA titles coming out shortly. CO is in direct competition with them. It boils down to subbing for CO to get freeform (as you suggest) vs. subbing for any of those AAA titles, or in the case of GW2, no subbing at all. What would the silvers choose? What can Crytic do to prevent the mass exodus, and CO reverting back to becoming a wasteland? 1) Making freeform slot purchases effectively anchors down a silver to the game. It makes them "invested" in the game and less likely to ditch. 2) One of the major problems is CO has no other "hooks" other than freeform. THAT is completely Crytic's fault. If CO was ever considered a AAA title at some point, this glaring issue should've slapped those sentiments right back to where they belong. Crytic needs other significant "hooks." Might I suggest content? 3) Once these silvers who want freeform as a one-time payment, but don't think subscription is worth it, leave the game, do you gold members think you would enjoy the game going back to being empty again?
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Post by zansatsu on Feb 4, 2011 13:03:48 GMT -5
I'm definately going to go GW2 since I've played the first one and all expansions, the thing is, since I know that it's a one time fee I'm still gonna jump around on other games as well, after all, whenever I tire of anything other than GW2, I can just go back to GW2.
Also, I just want to add that what he's saying is true, I'd at least stay if I could get a freeform slot for a one time fee, maybe even subscribe if I felt that the game was good enough for me to actually want the adventure packs. But that's just me.
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Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 13:06:42 GMT -5
people need to get over this "Gold vs Silvers" crap. Nobody. Cares. . Obviously a lot of people care, else they, and you, wouldn't bother discussing it here, and many other places.
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Post by Pion on Feb 4, 2011 13:34:03 GMT -5
Then comes the "Subscribe or GTFO" argument which is quite honestly retarded. What is difficult to understand about "Customization is the selling point of CO?" Customization is what they sell. The price they sell it for is $15 a month or $300 for life (not counting sales etc.) Would you rather it was a token in the C-Store you could buy that said "Unlimited Freeform AT's Per Available Character Slot For Life Plus Bonuses" that was on sale for 250,000 Cryptic Points? Is it the word "Subscription" that morally offends you? You have a choice, you just don't like it. That's ok, you don't have to, nobody is forcing anything, but people need to get over this "Gold vs Silvers" crap. Nobody. Cares. Would you like more choices? Gravy, so does everyone else, and hopefully they will offer a wide variety of AT's in the future both for sale and for free and CO will continue to improve. But Freeforms? It's the only selling point Cryptic currently has. This is the issue isn't it? There will be a massive...I mean massive influx of AAA titles coming out shortly. CO is in direct competition with them. It boils down to subbing for CO to get freeform (as you suggest) vs. subbing for any of those AAA titles, or in the case of GW2, no subbing at all. What would the silvers choose? What can Crytic do to prevent the mass exodus, and CO reverting back to becoming a wasteland? 1) Making freeform slot purchases effectively anchors down a silver to the game. It makes them "invested" in the game and less likely to ditch. 2) One of the major problems is CO has no other "hooks" other than freeform. THAT is completely Crytic's fault. If CO was ever considered a AAA title at some point, this glaring issue should've slapped those sentiments right back to where they belong. Crytic needs other significant "hooks." Might I suggest content? 3) Once these silvers who want freeform as a one-time payment, but don't think subscription is worth it, leave the game, do you gold members think you would enjoy the game going back to being empty again? 1) Or people pay the one time charge, get their freeform, and then go play a different game, possibly subbing, probably not, and don't spend another cent in the store. It's all hypothetical, and every scenario anyone comes up with only represents a small portion of the F2P population. You're also basing this on the assumption that people will flock to the cheapest option or something rather than playing the game they enjoy. 2) Yeah, Cryptic should offer more. That's why they're developing more stuff. But if people want to go play a different game, they will. If people want to play a freeform character, they'll sub. 3) The game being empty doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. The game making money does. That's why I give the game my money, and why I support Silvers giving the game their money. I also support Silvers not giving their money in the hopes they will attract other players who will. The goal is to make money, and thusly, I support the option that will gain Cryptic the most money. If they found a way to offer freeform AT's to make a greater profit than will be gained by not offering freeform AT's in a steady and long term manner then I fully support it. If people were willing to pay for freeform AT's and all the content available to Golds through the C-Store to be the equivalent of an LTS at a price so as not to remove the appeal of a Gold Sub and still compensate for the steady projected income from future subs potentially lost then I would fully support that move. But realistically I imagine that most players wouldn't be willing to pay those prices. people need to get over this "Gold vs Silvers" crap. Nobody. Cares. . Obviously a lot of people care, else they, and you, wouldn't bother discussing it here, and many other places. No, people insist on making things an "Us vs Them" issue despite it not being related in order to garner support for something irrelevant. It's about our money, and the Us giving our money to Them Cryptic, and how offering Freeform in the c-store will probably garner less money from Us to Them than the current model. Explanations are given and ignored, and the argument becomes a Gold v Silver thing again which doesn't matter.
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Post by Pion on Feb 4, 2011 13:39:13 GMT -5
Also, I just want to add that what he's saying is true, I'd at least stay if I could get a freeform slot for a one time fee, maybe even subscribe if I felt that the game was good enough for me to actually want the adventure packs. But that's just me. You can actually get 16 freeform slots for a one time fee. That fee is $300. It also comes with extra stuff, like costumes, and not having to pay again.
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Post by GammaBreaker on Feb 4, 2011 13:42:43 GMT -5
First of all, do not degenerate this thread into Silvers VS Golds bickering thread. This started as a constructive discussion thread. Let's keep it that way. Here's my take on purchasable Freeforms. Just because they've paid the significant amount of money required to unlock a Freeform (you know it wouldn't be cheap) doesn't entitle them to all the other subscription/lifetime benefits. Consider that they're still going to want/need: - Bag slots.
- Costume packs (costume design is a major draw for a large portion of people).
- Costume slots.
- Adventure Packs.
- Character slots to put that Freeform in. It's not an extra slot, just the permission to make one Freeform in a slot.
- Travel Powers. They're Gold not Freeform.
- Devices.
- Retcons. 250G is not enough for a full retcon on a freeform.
All of those still take Atari/Cryptic points. They're also still a bit limited in some other areas, like the Global cap. And there's more coming down the pipe. In addition, being a Freeform would immediately block them off from Archetype PVP, which is where most of the PVP crowd is going because it actually has a population greater than the fingers on my hands. So they may still purchase Special ATs. Someone heavily invested in a purchased Freeform character may still spend a very noteworthy chunk of change. It may be a slight loss on some that buy it and nothing else, but I've got a feeling they'd win out by getting people that simply won't sub to instead spend some amount of money instead. At worst I feel it would break even for them, and at best rake in money that would not otherwise be spent. Truth is, people often lose track of how much they spend on Microtransactions. They always remember how much they're paying for a sub, though, as it is a reminder by its nature. If someone makes a purchased Freeform, they're likely going to want to invest in it to make it as good as possible (bag slots, etc.). Someone could easily put $100 into the game over a year, which is more than the $0 if they quit or just stick purely to basic Silver. I'm not against Freeform sales, but it needs to be handled just right. Not too punishing, not too generous. Have to keep in mind that being able to make a single Freeform is not the same as being Gold. I do agree that the game needs more content. They've got to boost the game's content by at least 50% before Q4, both to deal with the incoming high-class titles and simply because people will have drifted by then. The content of the game, however, is matter for another discussion thread. Play nice.
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Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 13:44:58 GMT -5
No, people insist on making things an "Us vs Them" issue despite it not being related in order to garner support for something irrelevant. Perhaps some are confusing Gold versus Silver with those that support freeform characters becoming purchasable without a subscription versus those that think it should remain subscription only, however it is still an "Us vs. Them" issue.
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Post by zansatsu on Feb 4, 2011 13:54:27 GMT -5
There's only one issue with those many places to buy a $5 key and that is; they're not located in sweden, I have never come across a CO box and probably never will, sadly. Those places I was speaking of are online. Like here: champions-online.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=18 ... well it's not the $5 I spoke of but I have seen them online for such a price in the past. You just need to look around. There're deals to be found. Been looking around for those places as well, couldn't possibly imagine amazon being one of the cheapest, if not possible THE cheapest, this changes everything, thanks! Oh and by the way the linked post should be stickied, some people might want to try it out before actually subscribing.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 13:59:56 GMT -5
[/li][li]Character slots to put that Freeform in. It's not an extra slot, just the permission to make one Freeform in a slot.[/quote] I honestly think that even if this idea got passed the planning stage and out the door the above quoted would absolutely kill it. Pay a fee for a freeform slot and a separate fee for actually using what you paid the first fee for? I'm not seeing that happen. It would have to be all inclusive.
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Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 14:01:38 GMT -5
[/li][li]Character slots to put that Freeform in. It's not an extra slot, just the permission to make one Freeform in a slot.[/quote] I honestly think that even if this idea got passed the planning stage and out the door the above quoted would absolutely kill it. Pay a fee for a freeform slot and a separate fee for actually using what you paid the first fee for? I'm not seeing that happen. It would have to be all inclusive.[/quote]You don't get an extra slot when you buy a specialist or a savage now. I don't see how this would be any different.
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