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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 21, 2011 15:39:39 GMT -5
Hehe - thanks for the link - even before you posted it here, I was already using it to help inform my advantage points decisions and power decisions (at least what us Silvers get) . I have some questions - is the Onslaught advantage for Clobber worth it if I'm just playing The Behemoth archetype? Without the Enrage ability from the Might powerset, I'm not sure if it's worth putting the 2 points for this ability. Also, how is Shockwave as an AoE damage power compared to Roomsweeper? On paper, it looks like Shockwave's DPS isn't as good as Roomsweeper's because it deals Sonic damage, and that Shockwave should just be used primarily as an AoE aggro tool, as opposed to killing clumps of enemies. Could you also please elaborate more on your thoughts of ranking up Defiant? Does the speed at which you gain additional stacks of defiant make putting advantage points here not so great? If you have the time, I'd appreciate thoughts on my current planned build: I'd also like to talk about this build: Clobber: Don't put anything into it at all. It's damage output is weak as piss, and Enrage stacks are rather easy to maintain with Roomsweeper. You want to avoid using this attack as much as possible, only use it to get a quick energy boost to fuel your other MUCH stronger attacks. Defensive Combo: Put on Crippling Challenge, don't rank it up. A key thing to note is that techniques like Roomsweeper and Demolish can be charged while moving, so you are not restricted to this quick semi-weak snap-punch on moving targets. Mighty Leap: Don't put on Crippling Challenge, you can easily snap in a Defensive Combo once you've hit the target for the same effect. Yes to Nailed to the Ground, it is extremely useful in PvP (I've dropped another Behemoth in a Zombie Apocalypse game with it for over 1200 damage to him. He died quickly . Rank it up as well, to extend the stun time (extremely useful in all applications). INTERSTING TACTICAL NOTE ON THIS SKILL: It works quite differently when in full flight as compared to on the ground (or dropping to it). If you have Flight active, this move will be more of a 50 ft telekinetic "slap", and although you'll have all of the damaging and debuffing effects of it your character won't move very much. If, however, you're either on the ground or you have turned off Flight and are in freefall, you will do a 50 foot dash at the target and hit them directly. More importantly, if you do the dash you will only take falling damaged based on how high up your target was, so if they're on the ground you could fall a thousand feet, dash into them before you hit the ground and not get a scratch. Defiance: Get Rank 2 and Force of Will. That Hold resistance improvement is critical for PvP. Roomsweeper: Get rank 2 and Concussive Blow. Stuns are increadibly useful in both PvP and PvE. If you're going against something that has high resistance to knockback (a boss or another Behemoth for example), if they don't get knocked back they will get stunned, which gives you a full three seconds to beat on them without retaliation, and that can add up FAST. Retaliation: Don't underestimate this skill; its damage boost to your next attack is extremely useful, especially in PvE against bosses. I'd recommend going to at least rank 2. Demolish: As you have it is good Agressor: As you have it is very good, the more permanent damage boosts the better Unbreakable: Get Rank 2 and Better You Than Me. The more damage you can sustain, as well as gaining Enraged stacks, the better. Haymaker: As you have it is good Shockwave: I haven't gotten a Behemoth up to the level required for this skill, so I can't honestly give a valid opinion on it.
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 22, 2011 3:25:22 GMT -5
men kilja thanks for the pvp advices , this is actually very good
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 22, 2011 3:32:35 GMT -5
btw did u notice that in a pvp fight its best that u fight whit fast hiting skills rather then whit the chargeble ones? i think we underestimate defensiv combo, it won me some sick fights
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 12:55:27 GMT -5
btw did u notice that in a pvp fight its best that u fight whit fast hiting skills rather then whit the chargeble ones? i think we underestimate defensiv combo, it won me some sick fights Depends on what you're attacking. If you're going against something with a high Dexterity and dodge (i.e. Marksman, Blade) and particularly if the target is trying to move away from you (i.e. Marksman) then a flurry of Defensive Combo strikes may be more useful. However, against anything that stays in close range (nearly any melee class including Blade, or anyone stupid enough to stay still against you) the Roomsweeper alone is utterly brutal. If the target is a ranged archetype that doesn't have good Dodge or tank (which is pretty much anything except the Marksman) and they are trying to run away from you, if you can stay in range while charging up a Roomsweeper it is definitely your best bet. For the Behemoth charge up moves it's rather fast, it sends guys flying, and if you stay on them and chase them down with a Mighty Leap once you're in range, you can usually stun them and hit them with something nasty again. I'm actually starting to find 1 on 1 duels against some other archetypes kind of boring because of this particular sequence of moves; we may start out in the center of the dueling forcefield but by the time the second Roomsweeper hits them they're usually knocked clean out of the field (once I knocked a guy out of the field right into a squad of NPCs. I have to admit that was a delight to see ;D)
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 13:05:23 GMT -5
One more thing I've noticed in the current guides is that they mention getting equipment and Talents to boost your Endurance and Recovery. I have to disagree with that; I've found that an Intelligence/Recovery build is more useful, for the following two reasons:
-Intelligence reduces the energy costs of everything you do, making you more energy efficient -The energy gain from Clobber may be percentage-based off of your maximum capacity, but the energy gain from being hit while using Defiance is not. It is a set point value. If you had to rely on the energy input of Defiance to fuel your powers, it's much better to have the power you want cost 50 energy instead of 75, which can mean the difference between 2 hits and 3.
This is the build that I use, and when several guys are attacking me at once I am NEVER lacking for energy, spamming out near-incessant Roomsweepers at anthing that comes into range.
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 23, 2011 2:18:01 GMT -5
One more thing I've noticed in the current guides is that they mention getting equipment and Talents to boost your Endurance and Recovery. I have to disagree with that; I've found that an Intelligence/Recovery build is more useful, for the following two reasons: -Intelligence reduces the energy costs of everything you do, making you more energy efficient -The energy gain from Clobber may be percentage-based off of your maximum capacity, but the energy gain from being hit while using Defiance is not. It is a set point value. If you had to rely on the energy input of Defiance to fuel your powers, it's much better to have the power you want cost 50 energy instead of 75, which can mean the difference between 2 hits and 3. This is the build that I use, and when several guys are attacking me at once I am NEVER lacking for energy, spamming out near-incessant Roomsweepers at anthing that comes into range. Ur absolutly right, last night i put on a item that game me some inteligence, put it up cosue of a good str bonus, and i noticed that my energy goes down slower then whit a ( big endurence ) item, i was like huh? never thought about this, i actually encourege ppl to take endurence / recovery, but now........ Btw thanks for the feedback on defensiv combo, and yes i fought ppl who were stupid enough to stay next to me )) blade actually . I think he had low energy cosue he was ataking me more whit his energy builder, so i used dc cosue his energy builder hits really fast!
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sprime
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Post by sprime on Mar 11, 2011 19:40:11 GMT -5
*Kirbish* Hiiiiiiiii!!!!! */Kirbish*
Just chiming in to inform you that this guide has just been updated.
Not much in regard to The Behemoth, as most of it was centered on the Freeform Builds section of the guide. However, The Behemoth's own build has undergone revision as part of this update and the description was updated to give some pointers in regard to aggro-generation as a Behemoth.
Furthermore, I have added some pointers in regard to gear, if that's your sort of things.
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Post by Zed Brightlander on Mar 16, 2011 17:46:22 GMT -5
SPrime, Got a few new questions for you. But first, thank you again for this guide. It's been so very helpful. Behemoth is to CO what I hear the Barbarian is to DDO. I've hardly died at all. And that's very important to me. ;D And now my questions. Q1 - Your guide list what we should spend our Advantage Points, but not when to spend the points. Or to be more precise, in what order to purchase them in. Should they be purchased in the order of lower power get boost first, or is there a better order for maximum survivability? Q2 - At 15th level my Behemoth has a Str & Con of almost exactly 100 each. Would that be considered on target? If not, what would you say or guess to be more in the target zone? As a part b of this question: What does a healthy Health and Energy look like (for a Behemoth) at let's say every 5th level? And that sort of brings me to my next question... Q3 - You suggest that when finding or Crafting gear to gear up with, a preference should be, first to last, as: CON/STR/END/REC. As above, can you suggest what these four should look like at, say, every 5th or 10th level. As always, if you have no reference other than your own Behemoth(s), you may not be able to answer a query about averages, but if you have talked to many and have gauged out what you think might be an average, great. If not, no problem. As always, TIA.
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sprime
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Post by sprime on Mar 16, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
*Happy Kirbish* Poyo! */Happy Kirbish*
I can't really tell you to go one way or another, as you will no doubt have to make some of your own choices at one point or another. (Or might already have made some to begin with)
However, I can give you some pointers on what powers needs to be ranked ASAP.
Roomsweeper is very important early on, as it will serve as your main AoE/power for a while, so getting it at Rank 3 should be your top priority early on. Defiance can wait, though if you have a few points to spare, it couldn't hurt to spend some of them on it.
Otherwise, getting Nailed to the Ground somewhere around level 17 will go a long way toward helping you deal with the Gadroons in Millennium City/Canada or for when you are running the Serpent Lantern/Demonflame; though that mostly depends on what travel power you took at level 6.
Beyond that, Aggressor, Unbreakable and Uppercut should be way up your list; especially the formers, as each ranks of Aggressor will grant your powers a flat 8% in Crushing Damage (this only applies to Rank 2 and Rank 3; as this number is added on top of Rank 1's percentage) and ranking Unbreakable will help turn it into a more stable Active Defense.
As far as advantages like Crippling Challenge and Challenging Strikes are concerned, they aren't really that important early on, unless you actually took Thunderclap instead of Roomsweeper; still, getting Crippling Challenge somewhere around level 28 should help if you are planning or running Teleios Tower or Destroyer's Robot Factory.
Still, for the most part, you can pretty much do as you see fit.
I wouldn't know, gear isn't really a concern at any time until you reach the high thirties; though there is a way to easily tell if you have spent sufficient gear on your Superstats.
See, when opening your Character's Info page, you can hover on your Superstats and you'll notice a percentage that represents the damage bonus currently granted by this stat in particular; if your percentage is somewhere around 30%, that means that you have just reached the number at which you will start to experience diminishing returns, and therefore may want to spend some stat points elsewhere.
Do note however, that this rule of thumb doesn't apply to CON, as there is no such thing as not enough CON.
Still, generally, simply sticking with the gear you get from running missions should be more than enough to get you geared properly. Aim for STR in your Primary Offense, CON in your Primary Defense and END in your Primary Utility; from there, fill the rest as you feel necessary, ideally improving said stats, though you might be able to get away adding some REC into the mix.
When you reach level 40, you can then start optimizing your gear a bit more by running Nemesis Missions and buying secondary blues from the Auction House. Alternatively, running the Serpent Lantern on high difficulties can also grant some very impressive rewards, if you have the patience to farm VIPER-X.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Susanno on Mar 20, 2011 19:16:34 GMT -5
Hi everyone, i started a behemoth alt, i'm not lvl 32 yet but i'd like to know which is better between haymaker and uppercut pvp wise, haymaker's damge is much higher than uppercut's but it doesn't have the fall damage, does it really make up for the difference ?
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sprime
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Post by sprime on Mar 20, 2011 21:57:44 GMT -5
Can't really help you there. You'll probably need the input of somebody who PVPs more than an evening every passing seasons.
That being said, the mere fact that Haymaker hits harder and has access to a healing debuff would probably make it the clear winner in this case.
On the other hand, Uppercut tapping is fairly annoying and cheap energy-wise.
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Post by malukoblz on Mar 21, 2011 0:39:34 GMT -5
Hey Sprime, great topic
I was wondering about one thing in your build, you chose both Nailed tothe Ground on Might Leap and Leg Rumbler on Shockwave, but don't they have the same effect?
Apart from that, I'm a little troubled about stats and superstats, so after I get to 30% bonus on my attacks should I drop them (even CON) and persue the others you've listed?
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sprime
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Post by sprime on Mar 21, 2011 9:21:08 GMT -5
There are numerous reasons for that, some that are easier to explain than others, but I'll give it a shot.
First, The Behemoth doesn't get access to Shockwave and the Leg Rumbler advantage until you reach the level cap, which means that if you didn't take flight, you'll be nailed to the ground (pun intended) all the way up there.
By the time you reach mid-Canada, Monster Island or Vibora Bay, you'll realize that there are a bunch of mobs capable of flight, most of which can be difficult to get rid of; unless you get really lucky with your environment. (Thrown objects can be used to disable travel powers)
There's also the fact that Shockwave can hit multiple targets at once, which means that you can bring them down for other melee toons in your group.
Also, Nailed to the Ground actually locks out travel powers, as opposed to just canceling them like Leg Rumbler's do. Of course, that last one is strictly a PVP concern.
So basically, your Super Stats bonus don't stop improving at 30%, but I haven't really seen it get much higher than 36%. Honestly, you don't really need 300 of STR, nor do you need much more CON than 250. But then again, every single bit helps. (Do note that these numbers are based on a level 40 toon)
Let's have a look at the numbers for both Defiant and Enraged at 40:
Do note, that this calculation doesn't take into account Cryptic Math, and as a result, should be taken with a grain of salt. But those numbers do give us some interesting data in regard to how those particular bonuses progress in regard to your stats.
For instance, by 200 (roughly 30%), Defiant's mitigation stops improving, netting you anything in-between zero and one percent; whereas, Enraged keeps improving, not that it matters much, as CON is generally more important than STR as far as tanking goes.
The pattern we see above also applies to Super Stats, in that once you start reaching higher percentages of damage bonus, it requires more and more stat points to reach a higher percentage. Therefore, it is generally preferred to spend some of those gear slots onto something else.
But really, the game pretty much already makes that choice for you. You will never really find Primary Utilities that gives much CON or STR and similarly, you won't find much CON within Primary Offenses.
If we assume that you go for a very balanced distribution of stats, you'll realize that your slots might look something like this :
There are, of course, certain pieces of gear that gives more than one stats; or other stats that competes for other slots such as CON for Secondary Utilities; but I'm sure you're starting to get the gist of what I'm talking about.
I can't really tell you to go one way or another, beyond general guidelines like the numbers for Defiant/Enraged, the diminishing return on Super Stats and the rough guideline I have given here. Since that, for instance, people using Haymaker over Uppercut may prefer to invest more heavily within END and REC, while a tank might want to get as much CON as humanly possible.
There's also the matter that it is generally easier for those in Nemesis/UNITY/Therakiel/Adventure Pack gear to invest in broader stats.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Susanno on Mar 22, 2011 12:07:30 GMT -5
thank you for these valuable informations sprime i still have some question lol it's about travel powers, i can't decide between teleport acrobatics and super jump! also shall i get roomsweeper rank 3 or get rank 2 and the stun advantage! what about mighty leap ? keep it at rank 1 ? or rank it since the stun duration increases with lvl and rank!
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sprime
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Post by sprime on Mar 22, 2011 16:15:35 GMT -5
I've been trying to figure out what to do with you, and in the end, I figured it would be better for you to get information right from the source. I posted your questions in the following thread and hopefully, someone over there can help you better than I ever could. forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=127030Mind you, I'm not gonna do that for every single time, but I don't see much harm in doing it just this once. Keep an eye on it, see what happens... NOTE : The reason I'm doing this, is that this is not a PVP Might Guide; and as such, it is ill-suited to handle questions related to PVP.
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