|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 14:13:47 GMT -5
I honestly think that even if this idea got passed the planning stage and out the door the above quoted would absolutely kill it. Pay a fee for a freeform slot and a separate fee for actually using what you paid the first fee for? I'm not seeing that happen. It would have to be all inclusive. You don't get an extra slot when you buy a specialist or a savage now. I don't see how this would be any different. The cost difference makes it different unfortunately and it's relation to being something that has far more intangible value (freeform is more valuable to players than AT's). It's easy to do that when someone is paying $11.50 for an archetype and $7 per character slot (sold in sets of 2). Few will think twice, it's chump change in the long run. But you can only make something so expensive before it becomes not worth it. This theoretical freeform purchase would have to be cheap enough to be attractive but expensive enough to not completely devalue other things such as the LTS. So what do you make it? $40-$50 or higher? That's the cost of entire full game or more so not very attractive it'd likely have to a little less. If that price was attractive people'd just be subscribing. Let's say you make it $30. OK, $30...plus $7 for a character slot..wait they only come in twos for $14. So it's now $44 for one character. Again that's the cost of a full game. Let's drop it down to $20 and even assume this is a new silver player that doesn't need to buy extra slots. so as to not have to tack on the extra $14. $15 for a one month sub or $20 for one freeform character (the most valuable asset in the game) forever. I know a lot of people who aren't altaholics who will pay the $20 and be done and that's not a financially viable situation.
|
|
|
Post by Pion on Feb 4, 2011 14:27:12 GMT -5
See, that's an actually compeling well constructed argument. That, to me, puts the freeform thing in perspective. The problem, however, is what Kenpo said, that the cost would still have to be significant enough that it doesn't invalidate the Gold Sub, while still being low enough to appeal to players. Finding that middle ground is where the problem lies.
|
|
|
Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 14:31:33 GMT -5
You don't get an extra slot when you buy a specialist or a savage now. I don't see how this would be any different. The cost difference makes it different unfortunately and it's relation to being something that has far more intangible value (freeform is more valuable to players than AT's). I'm not saying it should be the same price, but whether you purchase the ability to make a freeform character, or to make a special archtype, you should still have to buy more slots. If they want to include the extra character slot in the cost of purchasing the ability to make a freeform character purchase or make it separate is their decision.
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 14:37:41 GMT -5
I'm not saying it should be the same price, but whether you purchase the ability to make a freeform character, or to make a special archtype, you should still have to buy more slots. If they want to include the extra character slot in the cost of purchasing the ability to make a freeform character purchase or make it separate is their decision. In my opinion, even if it jacks the price up accordingly, it'd have to be included to be attractive. Personally speaking, if I had filled all my slots up, I'd be more inclined to buy a freeform slot that was actually a full fledged slot than to buy a freeform "permission" in addition to purchasing an extra slot, especially since I'd have to buy two slots so I could use one freeform permission in this hypothetical example. Even if the end cost ended up the same it would look different by virtue of being two purchases and would therefore be less attractive to me as customer.
|
|
|
Post by dysmetria on Feb 4, 2011 14:49:22 GMT -5
I'm not saying it should be the same price, but whether you purchase the ability to make a freeform character, or to make a special archtype, you should still have to buy more slots. If they want to include the extra character slot in the cost of purchasing the ability to make a freeform character purchase or make it separate is their decision. In my opinion, even if it jacks the price up accordingly, it'd have to be included to be attractive. Personally speaking, if I had filled all my slots up, I'd be more inclined to buy a freeform slot that was actually a full fledged slot than to buy a freeform "permission" in addition to purchasing an extra slot, especially since I'd have to buy two slots so I could use one freeform permission in this hypothetical example. Even if the end cost ended up the same it would look different by virtue of being two purchases and would therefore be less attractive to me as customer. Cryptic has already set the standard of two purchases. Most of us silvers have two characters we are leveling already, if we want to play the new special ATs coming out soon, we will have to delete one of our two characters, or purchase an extra slot along with the ability to make that special at. But either way we could also make a new account to get two more free slots, which is why to me a separate price would be more attractive. I do not want to pay for an extra slot when I don't have to.
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 14:52:40 GMT -5
Cryptic has already set the standard of two purchases. Most of us silvers have two characters we are leveling already, if we want to play the new special ATs coming out soon, we will have to delete one of our two characters, or purchase an extra slot along with the ability to make that special at. But either way we could also make a new account to get two more free slots, which is why to me a separate price would be more attractive. I do not want to pay for an extra slot when I don't have to. And that's a standard I don't agree with. I think it's milking silvers more than necessary by selling AT's like that but that's sort of a different discussion related to how the C-store prices changed with the advent of F2P.
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 15:17:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by GammaBreaker on Feb 4, 2011 15:52:26 GMT -5
I've got no qualms with the idea of a "rewarded" Freeform. Spending $X signals that it's a valuable, paying customer. Golds get Veteran rewards, so a Freeform reward isn't out of line, necessarily.
While I get your concern with invalidating a sub for a $25 one-time purchase (that's where I might set it), consideration still needs to be given to the fact that they're not going to get anything else with it. It's a Freeform character, but they're still a silver account. They still have a bag. They still have only basic costumes. They still have the minimum costume slots. They outright are incapable of affording an 800G retcon and will have to buy a token or do some serious (in-game) financial work to pay for it. They also still get no stipend.
Personally, I disagree with the extensive milking as well. From a business perspective, it's the standard these days in more than just CO. You either work your rear off doing mind-numbing things, pay for the things you immediately want, or just take what you can get. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, but with few exceptions (GW), that's the way of it.
I also liked the idea of selling frameworks, if necessary. Powersets might be a better idea though, because unless they're priced relative to the number of Powersets in the framework, Might would be a rip off and Mysticism would be a goldmine.
|
|
|
Post by Kieran on Feb 4, 2011 17:40:33 GMT -5
Again, another method of Free-Form selling was suggested by Ashen and expanded upon by myself. He proposed that there be a minimum threshold ($50) that a Silver member needs to sink, either through subscriptions or into the C-Store, before he is allowed to purchase a Free-Form slot. After that, he has to reach the next threshold ($100) through money spent on the game (the Free-Form slot counts towards this), and then he can unlock the second. For the third, he would have to have spent a total of $150, and so on and so forth. This repeats as many times as desired - and not only does it allow Silver members to purchase Free-Forms, but it also encourages spending in the C-Store or the purchasing of subscriptions. For eight character slots, a person would have to spend $450, which is 50% more than the non-reduced cost of a lifetime subscription.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 4, 2011 17:58:11 GMT -5
You can actually get 16 freeform slots for a one time fee. That fee is $300. It also comes with extra stuff, like costumes, and not having to pay again. That's the problem. Not every silver member wants to buy everything in a huge bundle like that. One of the main selling points of F2P games is the ability to buy things in small increments rather than huge bundles that includes things people don't want. I have a suggestion. How about selling access to individual power sets per character slot? Say $10 per power set per slot. That way people can just buy the power sets piecemeal when they want/need to. 13 power sets ( ) X $10 would be $130 needed to have one slot have access to every power set (not counting future sets that LTS/gold would get for free), which still wouldn't include all the LTS or gold member stuff like travel powers or montly Atari coins allowance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 20:56:08 GMT -5
You can actually get 16 freeform slots for a one time fee. That fee is $300. It also comes with extra stuff, like costumes, and not having to pay again. That's the problem. Not every silver member wants to buy everything in a huge bundle like that. One of the main selling points of F2P games is the ability to buy things in small increments rather than huge bundles that includes things people don't want. I have a suggestion. How about selling access to individual power sets per character slot? Say $10 per power set per slot. That way people can just buy the power sets piecemeal when they want/need to. 13 power sets ( ) X $10 would be $130 needed to have one slot have access to every power set (not counting future sets that LTS/gold would get for free), which still wouldn't include all the LTS or gold member stuff like travel powers or montly Atari coins allowance. As Gamma stated above, some frameworks just aren't worth investing money into.
|
|
p
Sidekick
Posts: 14
|
Post by p on Feb 4, 2011 21:20:25 GMT -5
Again, another method of Free-Form selling was suggested by Ashen and expanded upon by myself. He proposed that there be a minimum threshold ($50) that a Silver member needs to sink, either through subscriptions or into the C-Store, before he is allowed to purchase a Free-Form slot. After that, he has to reach the next threshold ($100) through money spent on the game (the Free-Form slot counts towards this), and then he can unlock the second. For the third, he would have to have spent a total of $150, and so on and so forth. This repeats as many times as desired - and not only does it allow Silver members to purchase Free-Forms, but it also encourages spending in the C-Store or the purchasing of subscriptions. For eight character slots, a person would have to spend $450, which is 50% more than the non-reduced cost of a lifetime subscription. Disagree, doing that and a person may as well just buy a lifetime sub since to get access to what they want they're coerced into buying things they don't want and if you're going to be milked that much you might as well go lifetime since you'll get a lot more for it.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 4, 2011 21:48:07 GMT -5
That's the problem. Not every silver member wants to buy everything in a huge bundle like that. One of the main selling points of F2P games is the ability to buy things in small increments rather than huge bundles that includes things people don't want. I have a suggestion. How about selling access to individual power sets per character slot? Say $10 per power set per slot. That way people can just buy the power sets piecemeal when they want/need to. 13 power sets ( ) X $10 would be $130 needed to have one slot have access to every power set (not counting future sets that LTS/gold would get for free), which still wouldn't include all the LTS or gold member stuff like travel powers or montly Atari coins allowance. As Gamma stated above, some frameworks just aren't worth investing money into. Think of it this way. This method might actually provide an incentive for Cryptic to make all their more craptacular power sets better. Otherwise, that actually proves my point. Some people might actually not want to subscribe or LTS for power sets that "just aren't worth investing money into." They may want to pick-and-choose which ones they want to use and pay for, rather than being forced to pay for ones they don't want just to get things they do want. That's the beauty of buying things piecemeal.
|
|
|
Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 7, 2011 8:37:30 GMT -5
Think of it this way. This method might actually provide an incentive for Cryptic to make all their more craptacular power sets better. Before F2P everyone that was playing was paying. These paying customers have been asking/begging for certain power sets to get some love for over a year now. If that wasn't incentive enough (along with enough people leaving to force the game into F2P) I really don't know what is.
|
|
|
Post by poopyhead on Feb 7, 2011 21:45:48 GMT -5
Before F2P everyone that was playing was paying. These paying customers have been asking/begging for certain power sets to get some love for over a year now. If that wasn't incentive enough (along with enough people leaving to force the game into F2P) I really don't know what is. Naw, a subscriber is like a spouse that people take for granted after awhile. You're married and "got" him/her, so why bother putting in more effort....until the divorce settlement hits. ArenaNet's model needs to be applauded, even if people don't like Guild Wars (2). The devs went out and said one of the main points of their B2P model is to keep the devs on their toes making new content that people would actually pay for, a self-imposed incentive. slacking off=no money Hence, the idea of selling individual power sets per character slot. There's a built-in incentive to make all the power sets attractive to the players, so they can make more money. Think about it, $120 per character slot (not counting special travel powers, costume sets, and future content) is actually pretty damn good money if they made all power sets worth paying for.
|
|