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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 12:17:17 GMT -5
Just going to point out two things here. 1) You can put an advantage on Defensive Combo (Surge of Strength) to grant a stack on each hit instead of just the 3rd hit. 2) Using said advantage you can get 2 stacks of defiance even without the Defiance passive if you know how to do it. Is it a bug? Maybe. Do I use it on my toon running Unstoppable? Certainly. hmm that sound bug to me, because according to the description that advantage should only refresh but not adding new defensive on each hit. p.s. i just spend the gold to test this.. here are few things i need to clear up. 1) if you have defiant, Defensive Combo will not add a new layer even on the third hit.. which means defensive combo will not help you build up defiant faster, therefor totally useless 2)Surge of Strength does not build new layer of defiant, test it several times. all it does is refresh the duration of the buff. 3)i have test it on several different monster and see the damage different, if you see Surge of Strength or defensive combo add new layer of defiant, most likely it is graphic error. 4)if i didn't calculate wrong, Defensive Combo does not generate more agro then any of other damaging ability, it seem to have lowest damage in entire might set. the addtional agro from this spell is not enough to make up the damage different. 5)you don't need Defensive Combo to do Crippling Challenge.. Mighty Leap is a way better hoice for Crippling Challenge.. I'll address your points in the order you presented them. 1) Defensive Combo most certainly does add a stack of Defiance on the third hit. You may not be seeing D.C. adding stacks if you're taking hits as Defiance itself provides stacks of the buff upon taking damage. 2) D.C.'s Surge of Strength advantage isn't supposed to add more than one stack of the Defiant buff. The tool-tip makes it sound more confusing than it really is. For a free-form character that doesn't want to take Defiance as a slotted passive, they can still get one stack of the Defiant buff and maintain it by spamming D.C. with the advantage. 3) See number 2. S.o.S. can apply one stack of Defiant and maintain it as long as you hit something with D.C. 4) Crippling Challenge forces the target to attack you for 4 seconds with a 10 second cooldown on the taunt. The threat modifier on D.C. is supposed to help you more easily maintain threat on a target in between the aggro cooldown of Crippling Challenge. 5) That's entirely your opinion. However adding Crippling Challenge to Mighty Leap is supposed to be for those emergency moments when a mob slips away to go take out your healer by combining a gap closer, a taunt and a block breaker in one move. If you want to use it to maintain single target threat that's entirely up to you.
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 14, 2011 12:20:38 GMT -5
1) Defensive Combo most certainly does add a stack of Defiance on the third hit. You may not be seeing D.C. adding stacks if you're taking hits as Defiance itself provides stacks of the buff upon taking damage. 2) D.C.'s Surge of Strength advantage isn't supposed to add more than one stack of the Defiant buff. The tool-tip makes it sound more confusing than it really is. For a free-form character that doesn't want to take Defiance as a slotted passive, they can still get one stack of the Defiant buff and maintain it by spamming D.C. with the advantage. Just for clarity's sake. Does Def Combo add a 4th stack to a Rank 3 Defiance or does it just continue to refresh the 3 stacks provided by Defiance? I forget....been a while since I had Def Combo.
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Post by something on Feb 14, 2011 12:55:14 GMT -5
1) Defensive Combo most certainly does add a stack of Defiance on the third hit. You may not be seeing D.C. adding stacks if you're taking hits as Defiance itself provides stacks of the buff upon taking damage. 2) D.C.'s Surge of Strength advantage isn't supposed to add more than one stack of the Defiant buff. The tool-tip makes it sound more confusing than it really is. For a free-form character that doesn't want to take Defiance as a slotted passive, they can still get one stack of the Defiant buff and maintain it by spamming D.C. with the advantage. Just for clarity's sake. Does Def Combo add a 4th stack to a Rank 3 Defiance or does it just continue to refresh the 3 stacks provided by Defiance? I forget....been a while since I had Def Combo. just test it.. unless you have no stack at all, DC will not add any stack of defiant. it will only give one stack on third hit if you don't have defiant at all. i just confirm this three times.. in training ground and in team while other taking the hit..
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 14, 2011 13:36:52 GMT -5
Just for clarity's sake. Does Def Combo add a 4th stack to a Rank 3 Defiance or does it just continue to refresh the 3 stacks provided by Defiance? I forget....been a while since I had Def Combo. just test it.. unless you have no stack at all, DC will not add any stack of defiant. it will only give one stack on third hit if you don't have defiant at all. i just confirm this three times.. in training ground and in team while other taking the hit.. Can't right now, that's why I asked. But that's what I figured, if you read the description that's exactly what Defensive Combo says it will do. It's mainly used for threat (tanking) and making sure you don't lose defiant! stacks.
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Post by GammaBreaker on Feb 14, 2011 13:42:06 GMT -5
Mighty Leap is strictly inferior for applying Crippling Challenge in PVE. Crippling Challenge adds threat to each hit of the attack (the taunt part is separate), which makes Defensive Combo produce positively insane amounts of threat.
For PVP, yes, Crippling Challenge is better on Mighty Leap. That applies to all lunges when playing melee in PVP.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 15, 2011 8:09:04 GMT -5
2)Surge of Strength does not build new layer of defiant, test it several times. all it does is refresh the duration of the buff. 2) D.C.'s Surge of Strength advantage isn't supposed to add more than one stack of the Defiant buff. The tool-tip makes it sound more confusing than it really is. For a free-form character that doesn't want to take Defiance as a slotted passive, they can still get one stack of the Defiant buff and maintain it by spamming D.C. with the advantage. Remind me to do a video, I've been doing this an absurdly long time and as recent as this past weekend, and since I don't see anything in today's patch notes mentioning Def Combo I don't expect a change. Surge of Strength, No Defiance passive, 2 stacks, consistently. It's always simpler to just show people rather than describe it in text.
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Post by something on Feb 15, 2011 15:34:33 GMT -5
2)Surge of Strength does not build new layer of defiant, test it several times. all it does is refresh the duration of the buff. 2) D.C.'s Surge of Strength advantage isn't supposed to add more than one stack of the Defiant buff. The tool-tip makes it sound more confusing than it really is. For a free-form character that doesn't want to take Defiance as a slotted passive, they can still get one stack of the Defiant buff and maintain it by spamming D.C. with the advantage. Remind me to do a video, I've been doing this an absurdly long time and as recent as this past weekend, and since I don't see anything in today's patch notes mentioning Def Combo I don't expect a change. Surge of Strength, No Defiance passive, 2 stacks, consistently. It's always simpler to just show people rather than describe it in text. that sound like a bug.. it shouldn't do that.. plus even it is true, the prerequirement is to have no defiance.. which is impsosible for AT.. since you don't have any choice on that. i have test it over and over again.. just test it again moment ago. it will not add any layer if you already have one layer. all Surge of Strength does is refresh the duration. *just test this again
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 15, 2011 16:02:11 GMT -5
i have test it over and over again.. just test it again moment ago. it will not add any layer if you already have one layer. all Surge of Strength does is refresh the duration. *just test this again And again, I have no problem with this. That's what the description says it's supposed to do.
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Post by something on Feb 15, 2011 16:05:05 GMT -5
i have test it over and over again.. just test it again moment ago. it will not add any layer if you already have one layer. all Surge of Strength does is refresh the duration. *just test this again And again, I have no problem with this. That's what the description says it's supposed to do. the person above claim it give two stack.. p.s. as for threat generation an enrage will boost your damage to about the same threat.. or with full combo of uc + hay~~~and at the same time you also do alot more damage..(or heal from enrage if you pick the adventage)
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 15, 2011 17:31:26 GMT -5
the person above claim it give two stack.. p.s. as for threat generation an enrage will boost your damage to about the same threat.. or with full combo of uc + hay~~~and at the same time you also do alot more damage..(or heal from enrage if you pick the adventage) He also claimed it was most likely a bug not pertaining to those who use Defiance. As for the threat comment. You're talking about using 3 powers, one of which has a recharge, to do the same as one. For tanking that's not a good makeup. The other thing to think about regarding threat generation with Def Combo is that it's twice every second. That's going to ultimately build a lot more threat over time than trying to combine the three powers you listed to out damage it.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 15, 2011 18:05:54 GMT -5
the person above claim it give two stack.. Yes, I did. He also claimed it was most likely a bug not pertaining to those who use Defiance. This is also true. I said it is for non-defiance users. And it looks something like This.
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Post by something on Feb 16, 2011 7:58:56 GMT -5
the person above claim it give two stack.. Yes, I did. He also claimed it was most likely a bug not pertaining to those who use Defiance. This is also true. I said it is for non-defiance users. And it looks something like This. but this is all about Behemoth... the person above claim it give two stack.. p.s. as for threat generation an enrage will boost your damage to about the same threat.. or with full combo of uc + hay~~~and at the same time you also do alot more damage..(or heal from enrage if you pick the adventage) He also claimed it was most likely a bug not pertaining to those who use Defiance. As for the threat comment. You're talking about using 3 powers, one of which has a recharge, to do the same as one. For tanking that's not a good makeup. The other thing to think about regarding threat generation with Def Combo is that it's twice every second. That's going to ultimately build a lot more threat over time than trying to combine the three powers you listed to out damage it. that is totally not true.. enrage full stack grant way more damage.. especially if you have high str. also DC it self have really really low damage, so it have lower threat to begin with. the extra agro on dc just barely make up the threat loss from inferior damage.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 16, 2011 9:42:34 GMT -5
but this is all about Behemoth... You posted an inaccuracy about a power that isn't limited to just behemoth. I corrected you to keep that misinformation from spreading. When you say something like "Def combo only does this" and it isn't true it will be corrected as that's not "all about behemoth". What Roxstar posted is true. You have a misunderstanding about the threat mechanics in this game, mainly that more damage equals more threat than powers designed to generate threat. It doesn't work that way at all so you're comment about def combo producing less threat than having stacks of enrage boosting your damage is false. I can pull aggro from you while doing far less damage by using powers with CC and CS. Being in the right role and having the proper amount of PRE will make it even easier.
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Post by something on Feb 16, 2011 13:51:28 GMT -5
but this is all about Behemoth... You posted an inaccuracy about a power that isn't limited to just behemoth. I corrected you to keep that misinformation from spreading. When you say something like "Def combo only does this" and it isn't true it will be corrected as that's not "all about behemoth". the example you give was a bug, it shouldn't active like that. the skill desciption show no intention to function that way, and it will most likely be fixed soon or later. (if it is intented then it would add one stack when you have level one defient.. which is not ture) also this is all about Behemoth.. DC does nothing to Behemoth.. that is my point. about threat generation i haven't be able to test my self, since i don't have free form to test it. my agro/threat statement came from sprime's might guide(http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=108348)... so sprime is wrong? or his/her guide is outdate?
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 16, 2011 14:08:53 GMT -5
also this is all about Behemoth.. DC does nothing to Behemoth.. that is my point. about threat generation i haven't be able to test my self, since i don't have free form to test it. my agro/threat statement came from sprime's might guide(http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=108348)... so sprime is wrong? or his/her guide is outdate? DC is relevant though as anyone wanting to tank with a Behemoth needs it. As well as the Crippling Challenge it offers and Thunderclap & Shockwave's Challenging Strikes. and regarding the link you posted. Yes it is out of date. Please read the second line in the guide:
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