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Post by cassanova on Feb 4, 2011 15:16:01 GMT -5
I'm pretty new to the game, but I did several solo quests and a couple of instances teamed up with one other person and it wasn't too difficult at all getting to level 14. Then on another character, I grouped up with some newbies and we did the very first instance out of the training area all at the appropriate level and wiped over and over again. It seems like there were 5 times as many enemies as we saw in a two person team. Plus they had lots of the hard hitting enemies instead of just the trash ones. When you group as a 4 member team is it expecting you to have healer/tank/dps?
We didn't have any AOE DPS or healer. We are all Silver members, Behemoth, Inferno, Marksman, and Specialist was our makeup I think. So is it normal to wipe this bad on a low level instance?
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2011 15:20:40 GMT -5
I'm pretty new to the game, but I did several solo quests and a couple of instances teamed up with one other person and it wasn't too difficult at all getting to level 14. Then on another character, I grouped up with some newbies and we did the very first instance out of the training area all at the appropriate level and wiped over and over again. It seems like there were 5 times as many enemies as we saw in a two person team. Plus they had lots of the hard hitting enemies instead of just the trash ones. When you group as a 4 member team is it expecting you to have healer/tank/dps? We didn't have any AOE DPS or healer. We are all Silver members, Behemoth, Inferno, Marksman, and Specialist was our makeup I think. So is it normal to wipe this bad on a low level instance? Instance scaling on some instances has been an issue that we've pointed out before. Basically for 1 or 2 players the scaling is Ok but there is often a massive jump in difficulty once you hit 3 members and above. I suggest having AOE at the least for tackling a 3+ instance just because of how far the mob numbers scale up. A healer is nice but AOE is basically a must.
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Post by stuffinator on Feb 4, 2011 15:23:08 GMT -5
yeah apparently the game wants you to do real teamplay as soon as your team is 4 or higher! I experienced the same when teaming up with some friends.
however, I welcome the increase of difficulty, it stops my buddies from rushing through the mission trying to do everything on their own.
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Post by GammaBreaker on Feb 4, 2011 16:04:33 GMT -5
It's an often mentioned issue with the scaling. The scaling of Hard, Very Hard, and Elite is much less aggressive than the scaling of team size. When you hit three players, it ramps up abruptly, and starts adding things like Enforcers (a special enemy class).
It seems that they assume that if you're playing with three or more, you're probably rocking either a holy trinity setup (tank, heals, damage) or are generally self-sufficient heroes. The problem arises when, on 3+ player mode, one of those is not present. If there is no tank to eat punishment and hold enemy attention, the squishy DPS and heals will get squashed. If there are no heals, the tank will eventually die and then the DPS will (race against time). If there is no DPS it just takes for-freaking-ever. Granted, the tanks in this game dish out very significant damage which somewhat reduces the third scenario.
I feel this is how they structured the scaling for 3 or more players, which may not have been the wisest idea. In order to make a mostly-DPS team work -- and that is surely the most common team composition because people just love to kill crap -- it will require significant use of AOEs and coordinated alpha strikes to wipe out each cluster of enemies. Unfortunately, at the low levels, there are very few alpha strikes to be had. So even with coordination, it's a race against time and will involve lots of faceplanting because of the lack of alphas.
You know what they say. Two's company, three's a mob.
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p
Sidekick
Posts: 14
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Post by p on Feb 4, 2011 21:46:32 GMT -5
It does it with just 2 sometimes, I teamed up with someone and we just couldn't do the last part of the instance so I left it and did the whole thing again myself without any issue at all, so I wouldn't make too much of wiping the difficulty scaling just seems a bit off.
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Post by Zed Brightlander on Feb 6, 2011 16:26:12 GMT -5
yeah apparently the game wants you to do real teamplay as soon as your team is 4 or higher! I experienced the same when teaming up with some friends. however, I welcome the increase of difficulty, it stops my buddies from rushing through the mission trying to do everything on their own. You mean a bit like... LEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOY JEENKINNNNNS! ;D
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Post by stuffinator on Feb 7, 2011 4:18:43 GMT -5
You mean a bit like... LEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOY JEENKINNNNNS! ;D exactly one of my buddies is very confident about his grimoir skills, which results in wiping out the whole team as soon as it gets a bit tougher
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Post by grazer on Feb 7, 2011 6:07:28 GMT -5
You will find that because of the "open build" system here with the gold subscribers that the "I can take them all" mentality is quite common here unfortunately. Some can in fact "take them all" and some can't. What I can suggest is a good SG or good group of core friends to team with often. Work as a team. I have also found that ventrilo helps as well for communication. Some have suggested and I have seen the "wolf pack" strategy to teaming. It basically consists of the team attacking and one person gets the aggro, he blocks while the others attack. The aggro switches to a different person, he blocks while the others attack and so on.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 7, 2011 8:08:28 GMT -5
You will find that because of the "open build" system here with the gold subscribers that the "I can take them all" mentality is quite common here unfortunately. Some can in fact "take them all" and some can't. What I can suggest is a good SG or good group of core friends to team with often. Work as a team. I have also found that ventrilo helps as well for communication. Some have suggested and I have seen the "wolf pack" strategy to teaming. It basically consists of the team attacking and one person gets the aggro, he blocks while the others attack. The aggro switches to a different person, he blocks while the others attack and so on. This is true. My SG basically runs teamed content like that (aggro switching and blocking). And some builds can pretty much take out an army on their own: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLzmsnc1G8
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Post by takashi on Feb 7, 2011 12:36:33 GMT -5
at least you guys can actually get a team together..im level 20 and still haven't had a single team fml
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Post by Nuzgart on Feb 7, 2011 14:16:46 GMT -5
I first joined this game as a Mind AT, which has always (well, always... since I joined, which hasn't been quite a long time, precisely) encouraged me onto teaming up, for everything- missions, instances: I'm always up for teaming up, be it with friends, or impromptu teams.
First thing that made me be about to drop the game altogether was precisely what makes so many good games never shine again: poor cooperation. Before hitting level 11, without a heal skill, and unable to chat in zone to ask for help, I was left stuck for the very first mission instance that had a super villain in it, when I could barelly kill a master villain on my own.
Gotta say, though, appart from that single point, I've never again had any problem teaming up: other silvers, once they know you, are always happy to team up to finish their missions faster (possibly golds too, but freeforms are more prone to the "I can take it all" mindset). Most often then not, simply inviting to team to someone you meet in between missions killing the same stuff as yourself is enough- mission sharing is, by itself, a pretty good encouragement for not going solo.
Anyways, back on the subject at hand... I'm currently 23, and only once entered a 3 man instance with content as heavy as a legendary villain to it... An Inferno, a Grimoire, and myself: a Mind. No tank: we were all sidekicking to the lvl 29 guy, who was the one who had that mission in the first place.
No tank was available, and even though we did die a couple of times, no tank was needed: with appropiate use of AoEs, DoTs and blocks from their part, and blocking all the way and only unblocking to heal from my part, the instance was cleared despite the high numbers of enemies. It was fun, and a very interesting experience, as compared to simply going in with a DPS and a healer.
By the way, it was the Inferno who tanked the boss: even though Grimoire may be less squishy, by the end of the instance they could just let loose all they had once the trash mobs were dealt with. Not many MMOS allow players to be this viable for teaming up in F2P.
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