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Post by theirrationalist on May 4, 2011 9:10:58 GMT -5
Despite that fact that you are having difficulty getting your enrage on, the advantage from BB is still working for you 30% of the time. If you are wailing on a villain or master villain this is often enough to wipe out trash mobs inside the cone. I don't use Haymaker a lot, but I think it either doesn't grant a stack of enrage or the enrage stack is granted situationally and the charge is slow. Additionally, if you want a hard-target takedown there are better powers such as Dragon Claw which does awesome damage on a crit--that's what you are built to do. Current theory says muni toons take Howl for the easy enrage stack b/c it fears opponents within 25 ft and has a shorter cool down than Enrage. The bottom line is that it's your toon, so if you find something that you prefer, or is more thematic/fun, then go for it. I hope this helps!
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on May 4, 2011 9:19:18 GMT -5
I'm weighing something like that against something which would give me the Enrage buff, to get the area effect of BB more consistantly (Running Two Gun slows me down, at least until I can put some ranks on it). At the moment I don't have a melee cone attack, which I would like soon (it's starting to feel lame just using BB and LT), so I'm considering Haymaker. Any reason not to do that? 1) Haymaker isn't a cone, did you mean Roomsweeper? Roomsweeper is a cone and it stacks enrage. 2) If you did mean Haymaker, it won't grant enrage unless you full charge it after full charging an uppercut which means you'd need two power picks and the time it takes to full charge both of them.
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Post by GammaBreaker on May 4, 2011 11:03:41 GMT -5
1) Haymaker isn't a cone, did you mean Roomsweeper? Roomsweeper is a cone and it stacks enrage. 2) If you did mean Haymaker, it won't grant enrage unless you full charge it after full charging an uppercut which means you'd need two power picks and the time it takes to full charge both of them. It's also extremely energy intensive to charge both Uppercut and Haymaker in succesion. 110 energy, not counting for power cost increases/decreases. Huge damage, but very slow and cumbersome as a way to build Enrage. I use it on Shock the Monkey, but only because he's built for it (Demolish sneaks in there too).
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Post by tastic on May 4, 2011 12:13:11 GMT -5
Damn, sorry for that, I meant Roomsweaper, of course.
The main reason for having an easy way to get the Enrage buff is for making the already easy fights out in the world even faster by getting the aoe of BB 100% of the time. For harder fights I usually do away with the trash with LT and then go after the master/super villain.
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Post by sutekh on May 10, 2011 8:16:09 GMT -5
Isn't Bullet Beatdown and Dragon Kick in the same build a bit redundant? Or am I missing something? From my brief exposure so far, it seems Dragon Kick way outperforms Bullet Beatdown. Dragon Kick is for the stun and rush buff for energy return with a martial arts form active. Also, Dragon kick is nowhere near Bullet beatdown in DPS or DPE, it's more of a burst attack to wipe weaker targets. Pick any hard target (supervillians are nice, practice dummies work too) and spam dragon kicks and see how long it takes to kill them and how many times you have to build energy again. Then do the same test with bullet beatdown and you'll see what I mean. Then put the advantage on bullet beatdown and go hit a single target while you have an enrage stack. You can even rank up dragon kick and use an enrage stack with it to keep it fair, it still won't help it... I don't mean to be dense, but I'm in the PH now, testing on dummies. BB hits twice for ~140 each time, while Dragon Kick is hitting for ~550 typically, and can crit for twice that much, whereas BB only seems to crit one of the two hits, so ~420 . This is without Enrage. DK /is/ power hungry, but if I'm killing things with one kick, who cares? Edit: I think I see what I was missing; the couple of shots fired at the end of BB weren't proc'ing at first. What condition(s) make those happen?
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on May 10, 2011 9:08:59 GMT -5
Dragon Kick is for the stun and rush buff for energy return with a martial arts form active. Also, Dragon kick is nowhere near Bullet beatdown in DPS or DPE, it's more of a burst attack to wipe weaker targets. Pick any hard target (supervillians are nice, practice dummies work too) and spam dragon kicks and see how long it takes to kill them and how many times you have to build energy again. Then do the same test with bullet beatdown and you'll see what I mean. Then put the advantage on bullet beatdown and go hit a single target while you have an enrage stack. You can even rank up dragon kick and use an enrage stack with it to keep it fair, it still won't help it... I don't mean to be dense, but I'm in the PH now, testing on dummies. BB hits twice for ~140 each time, while Dragon Kick is hitting for ~550 typically, and can crit for twice that much, whereas BB only seems to crit one of the two hits, so ~420 . This is without Enrage. DK /is/ power hungry, but if I'm killing things with one kick, who cares? Edit: I think I see what I was missing; the couple of shots fired at the end of BB weren't proc'ing at first. What condition(s) make those happen? Bullet Beatdown is a combo power. Dragon Kick is not. Check the activation and animation times and see how fast you can kill something spamming Dragon Kick until it's dead and how fast you can kill it spamming Bullet Beatdown until it's dead. It's not as simple as damage per tick, it's how many ticks you can get off in the time frame and for the energy spent. Dragon Kick is energy heavy and animates significantly slower than Bullet Beatdown. Most things that matter (i.e. bosses) you won't be killing with one hit, you'll be in it for the long haul. Dragon Kick charged or tapped is nowhere near Bullet Beatdown in this regard.
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Post by GammaBreaker on May 11, 2011 12:05:52 GMT -5
Indeed. You need to do the full sequence of Bullet Beatdown to see how powerful it is. Combo powers of that ilk are backloaded on their power. The full cycle of it is significantly more powerful than tapping Dragon Kick.
It's 2x medium hits on the first tap, 3x light hits on the second tap, 3x light hits on the third tap, and 1x powerful hit on the final tap. :]
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on May 11, 2011 12:22:39 GMT -5
Indeed. You need to do the full sequence of Bullet Beatdown to see how powerful it is. Combo powers of that ilk are backloaded on their power. The full cycle of it is significantly more powerful than tapping Dragon Kick. It's 2x medium hits on the first tap, 3x light hits on the second tap, 3x light hits on the third tap, and 1x powerful hit on the final tap. :] And then NWI adds more ticks in the equation...
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Post by GammaBreaker on May 11, 2011 16:09:48 GMT -5
And then NWI adds more ticks in the equation... Not Without Incident makes it downright BEASTLY.
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