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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 23, 2011 9:27:14 GMT -5
R.E.L.I.C. : Level 40 Champion
Superstats: Level 6: Super Dexterity Level 10: Exceptional Strength Level 15: Exceptional Constitution
Powers: Level 1: Bludgeon Level 1: Cleave -- Rank 3, Rank 2, Challenging Strikes Level 6: Teleport -- Rank 3, Rank 2 Level 6: Decimate Level 8: Aura of Primal Majesty -- Rank 3, Rank 2 Level 11: Form of the Tempest Level 14: Annihilate -- Rank 2, Rank3 Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki Level 20: Evasive Manuevers -- Rank 3, Rank 2 Level 23: Parry -- Elusive Monk Level 26: Bionic Shielding -- Rank 2, Rank 3 Level 29: Demolish -- Below the Belt Level 32: Molecular Self Assembly Level 35: Flight -- Rank 3, Rank 2 Level 35: Masterful Dodge Level 38: Ego Surge -- Nimble Mind
Talents: Level 1: The Fist Level 6: Brilliant Level 9: Coordinated Level 12: Body and Mind Level 15: Healthy Mind Level 18: Negotiator Level 21: Amazing Stamina
Specializations: Dexterity - Gear Utilization (3), Brush it Off (2), Deadly Aim (3), Expose Weakness (2) Vindicator - Merciless (3), Aggressive Stance (2), Rush of Battle (3), Modified Gear (2) Warden - Fortified Gear (3), Ruthless (2), The Best Defense (3), Slaughter (2) Dexterity Mastery (1)
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Post by Dewey on Apr 23, 2011 23:19:38 GMT -5
Gah, how do can you play a melee character with your camera set up like that?
Have you ever tried it with the FPS settings? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Oe3KezBUU)
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Post by Dewey on Apr 24, 2011 10:19:27 GMT -5
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Post by skeeterbarnes on Apr 26, 2011 8:34:14 GMT -5
Are you getting full value out of SS STR there? Seems like Form of the Tempest would do well enough with SS DEX. And with the Dodge stuff in there, it looks like it could just be a DEX/INT Quarry build. That would allow Brawler role, and the extra healing from Fair Game might allow you to ditch Bionic Shielding.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 26, 2011 9:12:49 GMT -5
Are you getting full value out of SS STR there? Seems like Form of the Tempest would do well enough with SS DEX. And with the Dodge stuff in there, it looks like it could just be a DEX/INT Quarry build. That would allow Brawler role, and the extra healing from Fair Game might allow you to ditch Bionic Shielding. When I take AoPM off both SS's are right at the 30% damage mark from gear and talents. I haven't gotten to 40 to use my VH SL gear yet so hopefully I can do better then. With just DEX alone I'm getting around 18% damage per stack from Focus and with just STR I'd be getting the same from Enrage. With both of them I'm getting +23% damage per stack of focus and +18% from the single stack of enrage that keeps procing, dropping when I get more than one stack, and then reproccing. Also AoPM bumping my DEX is keeping my crit rate higher and I suspect with my 40 gear I'll be able to have DEX/STR/EGO all at or above 200 along with 100 or so in INT/PRE and possibly CON as well. I still wouldn't ditch Bionic if I had fair game, bosses render fair game useless and bionic fills that gap as an emergency button when paired with the dodge, IDF and BCR w/RR. What do you suspect the numbers would be like for a Quarry build?
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Post by skeeterbarnes on Apr 26, 2011 10:02:34 GMT -5
I'll have to actually test it with one of my builds to see the difference, but Brawler should give a "real" +20%, and you'd have the Quarry physical damage boost on top of that. So before logging in I'm going to make an educated guess that the damage benefit would be significantly above what you're getting from DEX crit %, Ego crit bonus and STR Form bonus. Combine that with the Dodge/Avoidance benefit and the BCR synergy and it may be better defensively (tough to say definitively, since CON bonus, PRE bonus, IDF SS scaling all come into play)
Quarry would still provide some boost to INT and EGO, so it does help spread the stats a little. And while you are getting use out of the AoPM bonus to PRE and END, I don't think they're crucial.
On a side note, in the AoPM build, Conviction's ability to crit may give it an edge on Bionic Shielding.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 26, 2011 10:42:22 GMT -5
I'll have to actually test it with one of my builds to see the difference, but Brawler should give a "real" +20%, and you'd have the Quarry physical damage boost on top of that. So before logging in I'm going to make an educated guess that the damage benefit would be significantly above what you're getting from DEX crit %, Ego crit bonus and STR Form bonus. Combine that with the Dodge/Avoidance benefit and the BCR synergy and it may be better defensively (tough to say definitively, since CON bonus, PRE bonus, IDF SS scaling all come into play) Quarry would still provide some boost to INT and EGO, so it does help spread the stats a little. And while you are getting use out of the AoPM bonus to PRE and END, I don't think they're crucial. On a side note, in the AoPM build, Conviction's ability to crit may give it an edge on Bionic Shielding. Keep me in the loop when you test your quarry build idea. I'm thinking that on paper the 40% physical damage bonus from quarry (it is around 40% at R2 isn't it? I'm not remembering offhand) is negated. The +5% difference for each of the 8 stacks of focus amounts to that 40%, but then there's the additional 18% from a SS STR enrage stack (would be around 4% without SS STR) on top of that and then there's another 20% from the melee bonus for STR. So there's + 34% in the AoPM build that isn't showing up in a quarry build and that's before factoring in criting more often. My question would be does the +34% with a higher crit rate balance out against a lower crit rate quarry build that is essentially (AoPM - 34%) x 1.2 Brawler (IIRC Brawler's damage bonus is multiplicative instead of additive). And the brawler build is going to have more energy issues as well potentially due to stacking INT/EGO but little END where as AoPM is going to have a decent amount of all 3. Assuming a value of 500 damage in the AoPM if my math is right and if I'm recalling Quarry's damage bonus correctly would be (500 - 170) x 1.2 = 396 before we factor in also having a lower crit rate in a comparable DEX/INT quarry build. Check me on this please. The PRE bonus proved more effective at staying alive due to the healing bonus in BCR and Bionic. I originally had talents adding to CON instead of PRE but PRE won out in survivability testing much to my surprise. I didn't think shifting 15 points over from CON to PRE would be as big of a change as it ended up being. The END is useful for tap spammed Annihilate after charged Annihilate and is going to be needed when I get to 40 and add Demolish since I hope to full charge demolish, full charge annihilate (take a chance on the big crit) then tap spam before building some energy to rerun the rotation.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 26, 2011 23:01:48 GMT -5
OP updated with "final" build, screenshots and explanations.
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ech
Sidekick
Posts: 4
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Post by ech on Apr 27, 2011 14:42:37 GMT -5
I am loving this build right now. Cleave is so beast at low levels. 2 swings and everyone is dead.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 28, 2011 5:12:52 GMT -5
Obligatory 5 man hard powerhouse run now that R.E.L.I.C. is at the level cap and properly geared. It would be nice if "melee can ignore selected target" worked again. www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMlUVqph1eo
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Post by skeeterbarnes on Apr 28, 2011 5:43:13 GMT -5
After some testing (apologies - I'll never be able to do it perfectly), here's what I see in Quarry vs AoPM (with decent gear slightly better gear for AoPM because of the toon I was on). Note - my toon isn't going to compare to Kenpos, gear alone will guarantee that.
----------------- -- BASE DAMAGE
AoPM indeed got better damage. I was surprised because I thought Brawler's "real" +20% would make up the difference. The difference with 8 Focus stacks was about: Quarry: 634 +55% crit AoPM: 656 + 61% crit One stack of enrage would have pushed this slightly further to AoPM, with a bonus of +.16 vs .068 for the Quarry build. As you push the crits with more EGO, Lock and Load/Ice Sheathe, etc it could get pretty significant for AoPM.
----------------- -- ENERGY
AoPM would have better energy, but the Quarry build had higher INT, and with MSA it's not something I'd sweat.
----------------- -- DEFENSE
I didn't try IDF on it (6 AM patch loomed), but IDF should be significantly better with the AoPM build. It scales on SS and the higher REC will better deal with the energy.
AoPM would work better with several block enhancers (esp. Retaliation, Ebon Void). However, in this case Parry, Energy Shield and Force Shield should do well enough with either.
Quarry's Fair Game adv was giving 670 HP. That's significant if you're dealing AoE. Zero help vs many Legendaries and in duels.
AoPM's boost to CON and PRE is significant, especially if you're using multiple heals.
Quarry's Dodge/Avoidance boost was running about 25% dodge, 30% avoidance without Parry, Swinging, etc. So it's got a nice head-start on the dodge/bcr combo. However, with the double hit to damage from Parry and BCR, I personally would be trying something different for heals. Support drones, conviction, protection field, etc.
----------------- -- Team situations
On top of all that, AoPM provides a nice team boost for stats. IDF, Bionic Shielding would both be better.
----------------- -- OVERALL
AoPM repeatedly comes out on top with the build. Quarry sneaks in some defensive bonus in mass target situations like Zombie Apoc, and the Quarry version would still be very strong if you don't like the AoPM look.
For me, this comparison shows AoPM is a little out of whack. This build is right in Quarry's wheelhouse - physical damage, melee (Brawler Role), dex crits, dodge/avoidance stacking. And it's not like Quarry is lacking, it's a great passive. I've already found AoPM to be amazing with PA, and multiple others have noted it's awesome with Dual Blades. It's obvious it can outperform Fire/Shadow/Electric Forms (Ice and Ego at least aren't obvious - each have some special synergies within set).
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Post by ironically on Apr 28, 2011 19:22:14 GMT -5
Hey Renpo! Been following the build and I am seriously loving it. One problem: I just hit 14 and I cant choose Bountiful Chi... says I need 3 MA powers or 5 non energy builders. I've only been playing a few days so... what am I doing wrong? Thanks
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 29, 2011 4:57:33 GMT -5
Hey Renpo! Been following the build and I am seriously loving it. One problem: I just hit 14 and I cant choose Bountiful Chi... says I need 3 MA powers or 5 non energy builders. I've only been playing a few days so... what am I doing wrong? Thanks If that's happening flip Annihilate and Bountiful Chi, I may have put those two powers out of order.
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Post by skeeterbarnes on Apr 29, 2011 5:26:46 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what a team of 5 of these could do.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Apr 29, 2011 7:46:21 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what a team of 5 of these could do. IIRC the team bonus given to other is 24 or 28 to each stat since I only have moderate PRE. I'd like to see a team like that too.
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