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Post by nepht on Feb 3, 2012 5:22:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 5:27:34 GMT -5
It's only being discussed right now, there is no confirmation one way or the other yet.
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Post by nepht on Feb 3, 2012 5:49:44 GMT -5
It's only being discussed right now, there is no confirmation one way or the other yet. I hope it stays on the discussion board I mean why the hell did I buy all those AT's ...if this thing come to be thats just money wasted. \o/ shock horror a silver that doesn't want freeform there more of us than what people think. I really detest freeform I mean I REALLY HATE the thing caused me to spend days in the power house looking and stupid numbers. Thats being a hero...if your Charlie Epps. Its like sticking a gun to AT players heads and saying you will HAVE to buy this or be left behind. PWE your a bunch of tools >:C
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Post by plinske on Feb 3, 2012 8:48:06 GMT -5
I hope it stays on the discussion board I mean why the hell did I buy all those AT's ...if this thing come to be thats just money wasted. \o/ shock horror a silver that doesn't want freeform there more of us than what people think. I really detest freeform I mean I REALLY HATE the thing caused me to spend days in the power house looking and stupid numbers. Thats being a hero...if your Charlie Epps. Its like sticking a gun to AT players heads and saying you will HAVE to buy this or be left behind. PWE your a bunch of tools >:C Perhaps it is not money thrown away. As said, everything is still under discussion, then there is nothing definite yet, but maybe its possible to use only the powers set that has already been purchased to fill the FF slot (more money spend ). Actually I'm surprised this has not been implemented yet. I'm LTS and feel cheated but if this bring more people and make them keeping playing it have my support, since most of my SG is composed of F2P players and after a time rarely see any of them to log on.
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Post by Jaxton Dragoon on Feb 3, 2012 9:14:26 GMT -5
I was assuming there would be a thread about this here. I can't say I'm for or against such a system.
I do think that Archetypes are a much better way to go for people just getting into the game. I also think that Freeforms are one of the main draws to Gold/LTS. That being said for players that have been Gold but are forced to bump back down it would be nice to play existing Freeform characters.
I'm not sure if this would be more work but I think probably a good solution would be a Freeform unlock token as opposed to an unlimited Freeform slot for Silver. This would allow for people who play Gold but are forced to scale back expenses to still play a character (or characters) that they have specifically worked toward.
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Post by joh on Feb 3, 2012 12:11:38 GMT -5
I still say that if Cryptic adds:
Premium Free Form character slots (A character slot that has unrestricted power choices and is not subscription bound)
it won't take anything away from Gold, they will just manage to keep some silvers interested in the game a bit longer. Especially if they manage to make it so that only the powers you own (means from the 9 free ATs + the ones you bought/buy) can be used I see no real problem. Silvers can't recolor powers which would make some thematic silver freeforms look like a Jubilee using her powers. Also since they are slots you are oh so restricted unlike Gold. Not like you didn't have to buy a character slot anyway as silver but I imagine that Cryptic will make freeform slots more expensive than Character slots and Archetypes, probably something up to the value of both combined. That actually increases the value of a gold/LT membership in my book but hey, that's just me, I don't feel special being gold and I know some of you will cry a river and rage quit when you aren't a "superior being" anymore. If Cryptic has done something right since F2P started is just making everything available to both members and to be honest, even if I had subscribed for 4-5 months (can't remember as I keep switching from gold to silver) I know more than a few silver members that have spent more money than I have on this game. Why? 'cause as gold I have the ATs for free and I get a stipend which I use to buy costume sets. However those people I'm talking about have never been gold, have lots of costume sets, character slots and ATs. Do the math, they spent more.
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Post by brocephalus on Feb 3, 2012 17:44:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about it. Its not going to be implemented for quite some time.
Gold still gets a lot of things for free from the subscription model, and they get C points monthly which can be used to unlock things permanently on your account.
It has been proven time and time again through many other F2P games that once you start offering power (Ex: freeforms = gold) for money, many free players feel that the system is cheating them (whats the point of playing for free when you are outdone by people who pay), having a non-sub bound FF fixes this while supporting the company.
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Post by masterofnone on Feb 3, 2012 18:19:32 GMT -5
I completely agree. This is an awful idea, and oh please! keep it in discussion. I believe it is safe to say that Gold and Silver players alike will detest to this idea...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 18:29:58 GMT -5
I completely agree. This is an awful idea, and oh please! keep it in discussion. I believe it is safe to say that Gold and Silver players alike will detest to this idea... On the whole, no. A year ago this idea would have been laughed out the door. Six months ago this idea was still being scoffed at by the majority. This week it's getting all kinds of support. I used to be one of the naysayers, now I just don't care. I'm more worried about the game as a whole right now. If the devs are actually considering this then it means the current hybrid P/F2P model probably isn't working like they hoped it would. They're seeing a trap card being put into play and this is their way of attempting to ward it off.
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Post by scorcherofthorns on Feb 3, 2012 20:53:36 GMT -5
I completely agree. This is an awful idea, and oh please! keep it in discussion. I believe it is safe to say that Gold and Silver players alike will detest to this idea... Speak for yourself mate, I know plenty of silvers that left the game precisely because they can't get freeforms unless they sub. A freeform slot at a reasonable price is a good idea to boost F2P into a serious thing, if you are a Silver who hates freeform, then I figure you would just stick to ATs, but truth to be told is that for as long as the game is full of these freeform "Gold" guys that have acces to all the powers and therefore can make characters immensively superior to the ATs we have to use, then F2P will always look like a free "unlimited" trial unless you sub thing, which deters F2Pers from spending money on the game because why spend money on a trial? Gold Players, like mentioned by other posters, still get a gazillion of slots, costumes, hideouts, stipend, and many other things that make their subscription worth it. This move is about ensuring sales to F2Pers and I can't help but to applaud it. For the record, I think freeform chars are a bad idea to beging with, the concept destroys the game's challenge rendering it boring, which means those freeforms toons gold players claim are the reason why they pay, are the reason why the game failed as a sub only game and went F2P, but the fact subers have them means Silvers are left behind and that agaisnt what people think, won't persuade anyone to sub or buy stuff from the C-store as a Silver. So from my perspective and for the above reasons I think NOBODY should have freeforms, but if you let one group have them, then its logical to let the other.
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Post by Lantesh on Feb 3, 2012 21:09:21 GMT -5
Well this is interesting. I haven't been playing Champs lately and part of it is not really being able to work some of my concepts in with the existing ATs. I currently have no desire to sub for the game, I mean I like it and all that but not quite enough to front a sub for it. I might be tempted to pick up one freeform slot depending on how much it costs...that could quite possibly get me to play again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 22:53:41 GMT -5
I completely agree. This is an awful idea, and oh please! keep it in discussion. I believe it is safe to say that Gold and Silver players alike will detest to this idea... Speak for yourself mate, I know plenty of silvers that left the game precisely because they can't get freeforms unless they sub. A freeform slot at a reasonable price is a good idea to boost F2P into a serious thing, if you are a Silver who hates freeform, then I figure you would just stick to ATs, but truth to be told is that for as long as the game is full of these freeform "Gold" guys that have acces to all the powers and therefore can make characters immensively superior to the ATs we have to use, then F2P will always look like a free "unlimited" trial unless you sub thing, which deters F2Pers from spending money on the game because why spend money on a trial? Gold Players, like mentioned by other posters, still get a gazillion of slots, costumes, hideouts, stipend, and many other things that make their subscription worth it. This move is about ensuring sales to F2Pers and I can't help but to applaud it. For the record, I think freeform chars are a bad idea to beging with, the concept destroys the game's challenge rendering it boring, which means those freeforms toons gold players claim are the reason why they pay, are the reason why the game failed as a sub only game and went F2P, but the fact subers have them means Silvers are left behind and that agaisnt what people think, won't persuade anyone to sub or buy stuff from the C-store as a Silver. So from my perspective and for the above reasons I think NOBODY should have freeforms, but if you let one group have them, then its logical to let the other. You're saying the concept of "be the hero you want to be" is why the game was failing prior to F2P? Were you around before F2P launched? I can't see how you can qualify that statement any other way.
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Post by stratosphere on Feb 4, 2012 6:48:31 GMT -5
I played as a silver for 6 months before going gold. While FF char's are really nice I am enjoying the extra bag slots, buying bank pages with globals instead of c-store, access to more costume pieces, and recoloring my powers more than I am enjoying FF power (slot) expansions. Just because they are offering FF slots for silvers to buy doesn't upset or even affect me in any way I can see. Where does it say silver must take a FF slot? Nowhere. Is there any place other than PvP where it even matters that 1 character is "more powerful" than another? My Tempest AT was placing in the top 3 during the Halloween Takofanes battles and also in any open missions. If people don't want to buy a FF slot and only play AT's, then that is just fine with me. Is people want to buy the slot then that's OK too. It doesn't cheapen my subscription in any way. Will they get all the extra costume slots, a retconn at 40 and a new character slot at 40? I don't believe so. I just can't see how this is a bad thing.
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 4, 2012 6:54:52 GMT -5
You're saying the concept of "be the hero you want to be" is why the game was failing prior to F2P? Were you around before F2P launched? I can't see how you can qualify that statement any other way. Pretty much. There's a ton of reasons the game had to go F2P. Open customization (the game's main hook that distinguishes it from every other MMO out there) isn't one of them. Those who have been around since at least launch know of the myriad missteps. For starters the day one disaster patch was an immense blow to the game and that doesn't even count all the other patches, bugs that hung around too long, broken powers that hung around too long, content that never showed up, PvP never getting any attention, the Vibora- Pay explosion, etc.. I could go on and on without even touching the game's difficulty...but I'll touch on that too. The game was even easier during the beta, the day one patch adjusted the difficulty (among other things) and people left, many citing because they didn't feel as super anymore. Kind of hard to get behind a notion of "freeform making the game easy is why it failed" when the very first live patch of the game made it harder and caused people to demand refunds.
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Post by scorcherofthorns on Feb 4, 2012 14:44:07 GMT -5
Speak for yourself mate, I know plenty of silvers that left the game precisely because they can't get freeforms unless they sub. A freeform slot at a reasonable price is a good idea to boost F2P into a serious thing, if you are a Silver who hates freeform, then I figure you would just stick to ATs, but truth to be told is that for as long as the game is full of these freeform "Gold" guys that have acces to all the powers and therefore can make characters immensively superior to the ATs we have to use, then F2P will always look like a free "unlimited" trial unless you sub thing, which deters F2Pers from spending money on the game because why spend money on a trial? Gold Players, like mentioned by other posters, still get a gazillion of slots, costumes, hideouts, stipend, and many other things that make their subscription worth it. This move is about ensuring sales to F2Pers and I can't help but to applaud it. For the record, I think freeform chars are a bad idea to beging with, the concept destroys the game's challenge rendering it boring, which means those freeforms toons gold players claim are the reason why they pay, are the reason why the game failed as a sub only game and went F2P, but the fact subers have them means Silvers are left behind and that agaisnt what people think, won't persuade anyone to sub or buy stuff from the C-store as a Silver. So from my perspective and for the above reasons I think NOBODY should have freeforms, but if you let one group have them, then its logical to let the other. You're saying the concept of "be the hero you want to be" is why the game was failing prior to F2P? Were you around before F2P launched? I can't see how you can qualify that statement any other way. Question: Are you implying freeforms aren't overpowered? Don't you guys hang around like if you are playing god mode, lets come to these boards and pick up one of kenpos invici-god builds and let's just go kick butts! <--Just a generic example. Don't I see you guys beating arch-villains on your own? And doing missions on solo that even teams of ATs would have a hard time beating? While you think of the answer to those questions, let me answer your own, I find the idea of making your own hero to be a good one, the problem is when the game's challenge level doesn't cope with the end result of the freedom given, which means challenge isn't present, for as far as I have seen the only thing a Freeform player fears is another Freeform, which means your challenge level is strictly in PVP, rendering PVE, which is the bread and butter of almost all MMOs, pointless for anything other than farming stuff and reaching max level to then go do your PVP. But then can we say the majority of Freeforms are PVPers? It doesn't take a genius to see the damage because I believe PVE is still the games main focus, and rendering it so easy it's pointless is just bad for game. Then comes the argument that one doesn't become god by just going Freeform, you still need to know the HUGE amount of power sets, the games environment, the games foes and the skills those enemies use to know what powers can help, sounds like one would need to have a tremendous amount of practice, knowledge, and wits to be able to do well with a Freeform, that would hold true if these so called "Gold" players would always try to figure things on their own, this is not what happens most of times, players pick up builds from sites such as this, fellow players they meet in game and so on, if a Freeform player is stuck with a bad build is pretty much by choice because said player can solve his little problems rather easily by just asking around. Can we say the same for ATs who have a set number of skills that 8 out of 10 times are not the best skills for the situation? For a Freeform the problem is knowledge, for an AT the problem is not enough power plus of course knowledge too. I have always believe that CO would be a far better game if it would offer competent ATs capable of holding on their own without falling into the over powered category, but for the most part it would seem that COs gameplay would fall into either the nearly incompetent gaming experience present ATs offer, or the over powered almost challenge-less Freeform experience. And the reasons I make that statement is because some may ask if I have such low mindset in regards to Freeforms why do I support their sale to Silvers, well that is because present ATs are not fairing any better in my book, and I think selling Freeforms to Silvers will equalized the groups, destroy the assumption that F2P is a trial, and allow Silvers to explore that other aspect of the game, yet amazingly, I still believe like I said before "competent" ATs are the key to the future, I feel nobody agrees with me on that one, its OK time will tell. I know you disagree; the problem is I don't see any other thing but that. When rumors of Champions Online development came around I was Into Guildwars and City of Heroes, in that last game it actually caused a maelstrom, people thought that the company that made COH was going to murder it, a super hero themed game that allows you to make any hero you want, how could that possibly be beaten? Then came the mass rumors spreading virally across the COH servers, the game (CO) have no challenge! I seriously hope that after having a history of it on the boards in regards to that one particular problem you are not going to deny it, you can say you don't agree, but gee, lots of people have criticized CO for its lack of challenge in the past and I can tell you without having the slightest probability to be wrong Freeforms are the reason for that, so no I was not around before, I don't need to in order to know that, I can still read what's being posted, and heard what's being rumored, I may be wrong about what cause CO going F2P, as a veteran I give you that, that still doesn't change what I think about Freeforms and present ATs for that matter. Edit: I know how sensible people get with these kind of subjects, I just want you to know I'm not trying to annoy you or anyone, just expressing my opinion, I jumped to answer the poster that said that both Gold and Silvers players are going to "hate" the selling of freeforms to Silvers, when what I have seen in game is the very opposite of that, which is people leaving because they feel inferior to Freeforms. I started out in a group of 8 players from GW, all my friends, in withing 2 weeks we have attracted at least 10 more, family, friends and the like, I'm the only guy that's left, they all tell me the same thing, ATs suck, and freeform they can't have unless they sub so you figure, why do I think Silvers crave Freeforms, because Golds have them, and ATs as they are just leave so much to be desired, very simple.
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