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Post by something on Feb 14, 2011 12:48:02 GMT -5
hmm after study the current f2p/cash shop system, personally i have come up with my understanding of Cryptic's goal.. not sure if it is correct though..
here are several major goal that i figure out:
1)Change this mmo to online version of single player game
Why? they seperate player by Archetype and free form. where free form is way too superior in comparism. which totally ruin the balance of the game, which they have to create different arena for free form and Archetype.. this game is instance base, every map have several instance.. so you won't likely to find other to begin with.. no this just make it even worst..infact i can't think of any worst system..
2)Make cash shop useless
Why? no matter how much cash you spend as a silver member, even you brought every single item in their cash shop it will still not change the fact that you are way inferior..
3)Make people hate this game
Why? as a gold member, this is cash shop + monthly fee. and as a silver member you are inferior in all ways, you will not likely be welcome to free from guild/raid team.
4)Earn as less as possible
Why? They sale pretty much everything in cash shop.. instant heal, energy recovery, class, customization, exp boost.. and making the game unbalance in purpose. which divide the population into silver member and gold member.. inanother word they have let in good number of f2p player, but they won't be playing much with gold member. which does nothing to help building a health cycle.
it is really confusing.. i mean they could have given out all class and Archetype to all player, and earn huge profit off customzation of power and virtual cloth.. or they could have sale powerset instead of creating the inferior Archetype.. i mean why would anyone want to buy something thats inferior with real money? it seem that Cryptic never really plan to run this game f2p..
p.s. about lifetime Subscription is really funny.. i mean even you paid all these you still have need of cash shop.. it is just like paying near 400 to play a f2p cash shop game..... and with less then 1/10 of the price you could get guild war which have no cash shop and lifetime free..am not really sure what Cryptic are thinking... in my opinion they are totally insane... or it could be something else that i did not see. please correct me if am wrong~~
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 14, 2011 13:26:37 GMT -5
Wow! Good night, where do I start?
To start off...and you can ignore this if English isn't your first language...but seriously please proof read your posts. Think about what you're going to type before your fingers take off and surpass your thoughts. So much of what you say is broken into tiny bits and pieces it makes it quite difficult to read. Calm down. Take a breath. Then type.
Okay to address your issues.
1) It's been commented on before that this game is very solo friendly...before F2P ever came around. So Archetypes (AT) have no effect on that aspect. Also, ATs have their own PvP. How and why does having a free-form character make ATs inferior? If you're grouping with them they should be on your side...helping you out. What's funny is that if ATs are so inferior wouldn't that actually ENCOURAGE teaming rather than the single player game you call CO out to be?
2) It's F2P...I don't see the validity of your argument here. That's how F2P games work. Sorry.
3) Cash shop is almost purely aesthetic, save the premium ATs. This game really does not require such min/max raid teams that WoW would. ATs are easily welcomed onto level 40 lairs. Trust me, it was tested over and over during beta. With full AT teams. You're not going to be passed over for an invite simply because you run ATs.
4) LOL!! You, in no way, shape, or form, need boosts and consumables from the cash shop. Seriously, you don't. I leveled all the way to 40 on a concept build which is arguably worse off than the ATs. Not to mention I was a fully built tank. You DO NOT need these extra items from the c-store.
You're closing argument has been discussed on multiple occasions. I'm tired of explaining it. I'll let someone else inform you why your suggestion is not gonna work.
Now regarding LTs. I have no problem with additional aesthetic items in the c-store because I don't pay anything else anymore. I want to support this game and since I no longer have to pay monthly this is one way I can. Not to mention we have a stipend now. So I really don't have to pay anything else at all (if I wanted to wait).
And I just have to say NO. GW has nothing on this game. NOTHING. It took me less than a month to reach their max 20 level. It took me around 5 months to get to 40 here. Add that to their lack of character customization and boring content. You don't think there's a cash shop but you still have to buy full retail box addons. Which locked out of entire content...not that I wanted to play it anyway. The only content you're locked out of in CO are adventure packs which are rather inexpensive.
I'm sorry man, but you need to calm down and reassess yourself. If you still don't like it...go away. We don't need negativity here.
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Post by something on Feb 14, 2011 13:39:00 GMT -5
just don't really like solo 99% of the time in a mmo...it is a good game with potential, but it seem they totally ruin it..
1) AT = mostly f2p player, they don't pay. they get in team with other f2p player bring no profit
2) F2P means you could compete with cash shop player if you willing to spend the time and work hard. but that isn't true here. in some terrible cash shop dependent games you could grind your way to +12 weapon, though it will take a while. but it is possible.. here you won't grind your way to free form unless you become gold member.
3)aesthetic? they sale everything good f2p games have sale..
4)well, if you continue let people solo all their way to quiting.. then it is waste of time. but i assume that will not happen..
p.s. there are many games work, and work great with such model. there are already many example out there.. i believe that something need to change, else it's just another half dead game.. like ddo..(for now ddo is way better in all ways when come to f2p model)
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Post by Roxstar on Feb 14, 2011 13:47:03 GMT -5
Again, you don't get it. You DO NOT need heals, boosts, and other such consumables from the cash shop to play this game. You are not competing with anybody with these. They are not allowed in PvP. You can play all the way to 40 without 'em easily.
The other thing to take note is that this is not a full f2p game. It's a hybrid. It was originally a subscription game and is still that with the addition of free content. If you want the full game you sub. But that doesn't mean you are gimped by playing a silver AT.
And why exactly does playing with other F2P members bring no profit? Sounds to me like you're the one that's prejudice against allowing ATs on your team. If YOU don't want to team that's YOUR fault.
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Post by PoochieHellhound on Feb 14, 2011 14:09:01 GMT -5
I've heard people say this for months now. I'd like to see cradock popping in here, he knows what I'm talking about. This is all moot right now, especially since none of us have data to back up what we're saying.
Also, what's stopping you from teaming? Every instanced quest scales and gets more fun if you bring people.
P.S. The instances on zones only appear if more than a certain number tries to join one zone. As opposed to, say, a shard system where one can be virtually empty.
Besides, one can just change instances to a more crowded one.
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Post by Nuzgart on Feb 14, 2011 14:59:28 GMT -5
Really, something, as has been stated above, and in other threads... ATs are NOT gimped. Sure thing: freeforms get to have the same defense as a tank and the same dps as a dps if properly min/maxed... But, as far as teaming up goes, when we take into account the trinity (tank, dps, support), they do NOT overdo what separate ATs accomplish in their respective areas.
1.- Freeform is a must: Gold members are paying mostly to get freeform, and the game keeps on running thanks to there being enough subs. Would you subscribe for a game, to get the exact same character as someone who plays for free, with minor cosmetic differences? The answer is no. Luckily for ATs, freeform only outperforms them in soloing and PvP. So... Yes: there's plenty of room for us silvers.
2.- Sadly, that is currently true on so many levels: no matter how much a silver spends in the cash shop, it'll be "just a silver"; with no official voice or rights. This very forum exists, precisely, because we don't get to voice for ourselves in the official one... Yet. A cheer for the community on this aspect, though: even though there ARE some golds who look down on silvers, there's A LOT more, that are welcoming and have worked hard on giving us an unofficial voice. See this same forum, the guides on ATs that've been made, and even take a look around the official forum and you'll see it happening.
3.- Golds get a stipend that covers for their few expenses in the cash shop. Ingame, silvers are not inferior: simply specialised. Something that quite a few golds have rolled for in their own freeforms, simply because a properly min/maxed toon didn't appeal them. Or because they wanted to make a themed toon, without caring much for min/maxing it.
4.- I'll turn the tydes around for you here: they've let in a bunch of F2P members, flooding the game with new players and therefore, increasing the community. This, on itself, is good for gold members, because they have more people to play with now. More fun=less subscribers quitting. Silvers are players who wouldn't be playing the game otherwise so, if they happen to buy something from the c-store, it's a little bit of extra cash for cryptic. Also, some silvers will eventually get tired of playing an AT, and will want to get the full features of a gold member... That's one or two subscriptions that wouldn't have happened without there being a F2P to begin with. Lastly, gold members who can't resubsribe for a month or two are able to keep on playing as a silver (albeit only on silver toons). That's one subscriber that won't "go check other games" while he/she's waiting to be able to resub again.
p/s: if you want to compare paying methods with other games, let's compare with Runes of Magic... Another "free" game, without the free part of it. The cap level is 62 currently, but you can't really expect surviving in instances past level 50 without statting your gear properly. And you can't even keep on leveling past 55 without doing so (some classes have serious trouble leveling unstatted past 45). Each proper stat you place on an item costs around 1 euro+some decent gold... Or, alternativelly, a MONTH's worth of gameplay+the same exact gold. Each piece of gear gets up to 6 stats, and it's 15-17 pieces of gear (depending class) to stat. Of course, you don't always stat all your gear throughout the leveling, nor do so correctly, but... More or less, every 5 levels (starting at 50), gear becomes obsolete.
Then, there's plusing each item to +12... That's another 1 euro per +... Well, not actually: you pay for a CHANCE of plusing the item, but you could have a +11 item, use the gem, and end up with a +7 one. Normally, it's around 30-40 gems to plus only one item to the max, if you're lucky. That's without starting to talk about changing armors skins and recoloring parts: this is the money you HAVE to pay, if you want to get to endgame instances... And without even considering how much it costs to tier up the equipment, which is godly expensive.
And, mounts (the equivalent to travel powers in CO) cost around 3-6€, depending on which you get, and if you get a sale or not. It's either that, or spending in-game currency for a 1 hour mount... Or a 7 days mount, if you're endgame.
Now, compare that to the c-store and say again: do you really hate CO's cash shop?
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Post by KenpoJuJitsu3 on Feb 14, 2011 15:32:40 GMT -5
Why? as a gold member, this is cash shop + monthly fee. and as a silver member you are inferior in all ways, you will not likely be welcome to free from guild/raid team. I could spend a lengthy amount of time posting why every single one of these points is false but I only have time for this one. No guild that I know of is disallowing Silver players. None, and I'm reasonably sure I know someone in all of the more active ones. So please, keep the assumptions. They aren't doing anyone any good. |
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Post by melkathi on Feb 14, 2011 15:40:41 GMT -5
Why? as a gold member, this is cash shop + monthly fee. and as a silver member you are inferior in all ways, you will not likely be welcome to free from guild/raid team. I could spend a lengthy amount of time posting why every single one of these points is false but I only have time for this one. No guild that I know of is disallowing Silver players. None, and I'm reasonably sure I know someone in all of the more active ones. So please, keep the assumptions. They aren't doing anyone any good. Quite on the contrary: All the big SuperGroups are actively recruiting silver players. |
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Post by p on Feb 14, 2011 17:48:47 GMT -5
Wow! To start off...and you can ignore this if English isn't your first language... It's really obvious that it isn't, the complete lack of things like plurals, possessives, present perfects, etc gives it away. (ie they have most of the language down but not the grammar). 1.- Freeform is a must: Gold members are paying mostly to get freeform, and the game keeps on running thanks to there being enough subs. The move to "F2P" happened why then? From all whoohaa about it starting from towards the end of last year it's been made out that there wasn't enough subs/$$$ hence F2P to either get more $$$ by way of the cash shop or get more subs. Would you subscribe for a game, to get the exact same character as someone who plays for free, with minor cosmetic differences? The answer is no. bag slots, adventure packs, vet rewards, 8+ character slots, some of the travel powers (which along with minor graphical changes have minor in game benefits like swinging bonus to dodge), 100 items vs 10 items being able to be sold at the same time, currency limit, forum access, priority login, free cash shop $$$ (which pretty much means being able to buy anything in the cash shop that isn't already free upfront)......aka the non cosmetic bonus (then there are all the cosmetic differences which in a lot of cash shops tend to be big money earners). Why people turn gold accounts into only having free form as the only benefit is odd. because they have more people to play with now unless they are a free form pvp'er  |
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Post by Kieran on Feb 14, 2011 20:25:46 GMT -5
Poochie, while you're right in that this has been discussed to death, there are going to be thousands upon thousands of new players to whom this is gonna be a new topic. When only subscribers have had the chance to voice their opinions, it is inevitable that new Silver members will want to do likewise. I'd also like to say that while some of the responses to this thread have been polite, others have been rude. People, please keep things civil - Cryptic made a business move and as such it is perfectly legitimate to criticize it. Cryptic has done everything for profit and nothing out of the kindness of their hearts, so it is not possible for people to be "ungrateful". So criticism is absolutely fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that the criticism is right, though: hange this mmo to online version of single player game Why? they seperate player by Archetype and free form. where free form is way too superior in comparism. which totally ruin the balance of the game, which they have to create different arena for free form and Archetype.. this game is instance base, every map have several instance.. so you won't likely to find other to begin with.. no this just make it even worst..infact i can't think of any worst system.. This point has been discussed by numerous times - and I've heard that the single-player focus of this game is something that Cryptic is aware of and is working on. However, your point on Archetypes is correct - Free-Forms are vastly superior to Archetypes, but that is to encourage subscriptions. Currently, many Gold members have voiced that the only reason they're subscribing is because of Free-Form exclusivity - so Archetypes have to exist in order for subscriptions to continue. This could be easily remedied in so many simple ways, but the fact of the matter is that's just how it is right now. However, Nuzgart, Archetypes are designed to not be that great. This is why a number of them have energy issues, or why all Silver Archetypes were specifically designed without a self heal. However, as said above, that is for the purpose of trying to obtain subscriptions. 2)Make cash shop useless Why? no matter how much cash you spend as a silver member, even you brought every single item in their cash shop it will still not change the fact that you are way inferior.. Unfortunately, every cash shop-run game is like this. The only exception is Guild Wars, but that's because Arenanet carefully kept that cash shop problem in mind the whole time. But yeah, most cash shops are like CO's. 3)Make people hate this game Why? as a gold member, this is cash shop + monthly fee. and as a silver member you are inferior in all ways, you will not likely be welcome to free from guild/raid team. One problem in this statement is that I've seen many, many, many SGs welcome Archetypes in all forms of gameplay. In fact, I've not seen an SG discriminate against an Archetype so far. However, Cryptic is indeed trying to make people dissatisfied with the Archetype system so that they'll subscribe, so you're somewhat correct there. 4)Earn as less as possible Why? They sale pretty much everything in cash shop.. instant heal, energy recovery, class, customization, exp boost.. and making the game unbalance in purpose. which divide the population into silver member and gold member.. inanother word they have let in good number of f2p player, but they won't be playing much with gold member. which does nothing to help building a health cycle. Unfortunately, this argument isn't valid in any way, shape, or form. No company deliberately designs a game for the purpose of making as little money as possible. Now, I do certainly believe Cryptic isn't making as much money as they could, but that doesn't mean that they're deliberately trying to bring in as little revenue as possible. That just doesn't make sense from a business viewpoint - and Cryptic has shown that they are very much money-oriented at heart. Oh, and Roxstar, I gotta say that if you played GW to reach the level cap, then you're absolutely right - you will be disappointed. The awesomeness in Guild Wars completely lies in the fact that the level cap is so low - because then it stresses player skill and ingenuity rather than level. Additionally, that allows you to enjoy the game without restriction as almost all content in Guild Wars is designed for players that are level 20. To be honest, Guild Wars is the best MMORPG (and possible best game) I've ever played, and Guild Wars 2 is going to blow every current MMORPG out of the water and redefine the way the genre is made and played for years and years to come. But that's off topic - if you want, PM me or start a GW topic - I'd be glad to help you out in that game if you want - my IGN is Cyon Vaan, and ever since I kinda totally beat that game (God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals) and all of its extras, I've been kinda bored. So I'd be more than willing to show you extra fun ways to play the game.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 21:16:40 GMT -5
There's a whole lot of hyping and griping going on in here. Let's try to keep the posts constructive please.
To answer the question posed in the thread topic: To make money, make more games and be successful with them. Not necessarily in that order.
I am neither a Cryptic employee nor do I pretend to be one by making that statement. It's merely my opinion.
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Post by poopyhead on Feb 15, 2011 22:57:11 GMT -5
However, your point on Archetypes is correct - Free-Forms are vastly superior to Archetypes, but that is to encourage subscriptions. Currently, many Gold members have voiced that the only reason they're subscribing is because of Free-Form exclusivity - so Archetypes have to exist in order for subscriptions to continue. This could be easily remedied in so many simple ways, but the fact of the matter is that's just how it is right now. However, Nuzgart, Archetypes are designed to not be that great. This is why a number of them have energy issues, or why all Silver Archetypes were specifically designed without a self heal. However, as said above, that is for the purpose of trying to obtain subscriptions. FYI, trial = to get people to subscribe f2p = can get most, if not all, the stuff through cash shop w/o subscription If people are indeed subscribing solely for the freeform, why are the other "stuff" in the cash shop so expensive (i.e. bag slots, char slots, costumes, bank slots, costume slots, etc.) It seems that there is a disconnect between how valuable gold/LTS players think of these extra non-freeform stuff and how much cash shop is selling them for. i.e. If the majority of the $300 LTS fee is for the freeform, then the value for all the other stuff should be pretty low. In other words if a silver member were to buy everything in the cash shop to mimic what a LTS member would have (other than freeform since it isn't available), it would be significantly more than how much LTS actually costs. Unfortunately, every cash shop-run game is like this. The only exception is Guild Wars, but that's because Arenanet carefully kept that cash shop problem in mind the whole time. But yeah, most cash shops are like CO's. not Turbine's To be honest, Guild Wars is the best MMORPG (and possible best game) I've ever played, and Guild Wars 2 is going to blow every current MMORPG out of the water and redefine the way the genre is made and played for years and years to come. Tera, Blade & Soul, Star Wars:KOTOR, Rift, Secret World sez haiz! |
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Post by Kieran on Feb 15, 2011 23:59:59 GMT -5
FYI, trial = to get people to subscribe f2p = can get most, if not all, the stuff through cash shop w/o subscription I feel the same way. However, that doesn't seem to be what Cryptic is aiming for. If they indeed were going for this, then Free-Forms should be available to all. If people are indeed subscribing solely for the freeform, why are the other "stuff" in the cash shop so expensive (i.e. bag slots, char slots, costumes, bank slots, costume slots, etc.) It seems that there is a disconnect between how valuable gold/LTS players think of these extra non-freeform stuff and how much cash shop is selling them for. i.e. If the majority of the $300 LTS fee is for the freeform, then the value for all the other stuff should be pretty low. In other words if a silver member were to buy everything in the cash shop to mimic what a LTS member would have (other than freeform since it isn't available), it would be significantly more than how much LTS actually costs. Actually, I added everything in the shop up, and the total price came out to $120-$150 for everything an LTS has aside from Free-Forms. While it is true that Cryptic is adding new stuff to the C-Store, the fact is that, IMO, Vanguards (people who bought LTSes) and Gold members do not get enough for their subscription money. But that's a whole other can of worms. Um, CO is based off the turbine system. Except with one very notable difference - you can buy everything a subscriber has with LOTRO and DDO, but you can't buy everything a Gold member has in CO (IE, Custom Frameworks). Tera, Blade & Soul, Star Wars:KOTOR, Rift, Secret World sez haiz! Eh, Tera just looks like it's gonna be another cookie cutter MMORPG. I'm predicting Blade and Soul will just be another Aion - a pretty game with no substance. Secret World looks very promising though, but with a 100% classless system and mediocre graphics, I doubt it will be revolutionary. Still is gonna be awesome though. Star Wars: The Old Republic has the potential to stand up to Guild Wars 2 - but in a recent interview, they stated that they're trying to copy World of Warcraft with it. That made me loose much esteem I previously held for Bioware. I don't wanna play WOW with a Star Wars skin - I want to play an amazing and unique game. I just hope that they were saying that for publicity and not as one of their core philosophies. Rift looks interesting, but it sounds like it's trying to copy off of Guild Wars 2 without offering as much.  |
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Post by bladefist on Feb 16, 2011 2:37:07 GMT -5
This statement... To be honest, Guild Wars is the best MMORPG (and possible best game) I've ever played, and Guild Wars 2 is going to blow every current MMORPG out of the water and redefine the way the genre is made and played for years and years to come. ...and this statment... Rift looks interesting, but it sounds like it's trying to copy off of Guild Wars 2 without offering as much. ...boggle my mind. Liking other games is a given but advocating a game that will take CO and "blow it out of the water"...on a CO-related forum...by a moderator no less? The nonsense in here is thick enough to cut with a knife. |
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Post by mirth on Feb 26, 2011 11:55:24 GMT -5
Until they allow converted silvers to go gold, then go back to silver, I have no reason to go gold. I did buy swing and specalist, but don't see anything else I 'had to have' in the store. I agree, not "enough" perks for gold members. Nothing to convince me to keep paying every month.
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