|
Post by sparkycc on Jul 2, 2011 15:42:44 GMT -5
I personally think that Silvers should be able to access all Gold content in the form of the Cash Shop. Silvers are extremely discriminated against in the F2P model. The way I think it should work is that being Silver and buying from the C-Store should just be an alternate way to pay for content. I'm a 14 year old third year student with no recurring form of income. I pay for things I want with money saved up from my birthday and Christmas. I use my dad's credit card to buy things online, and then pay him back with cash. No way could I afford to pay €15 a month for a subscription, but I can afford to buy things from the C-Store every now and then. I don't find it fair that it is impossible for me to access certain content. Mainly freeform builds. There should be a way to access freeform builds (and other gold only content) through microtransactions rather than buying a subscription. Some people (like myself) find this a much more efficent and handy form of payment. Cryptic are still getting their money, just in a different form. Please share your opinions on this, I'm sure there's others who agree with me (and disagree), and I'd love to hear your opinions
|
|
|
Post by Starboard_Nacelle on Jul 2, 2011 16:17:46 GMT -5
To put it simply, this would be financial suicide for both the company and the user. Cryptic Studios and its staff have bills to pay, and the best way to do it is to have a consistent flow of income. Monthly subscriptions are the most efficient way of doing that. While freeform character slots could certainly bring in a lot of cash in the short term, it would kill all incentive to purchase a Gold membership unless they were priced accordingly.
Let's put this into a hypothetical scenario. Say they did put freeform character slots up for sale in the Cryptic Store. The best way to do it without pissing off Gold members would be to use the already-existing archetypes as a way to gauge the prices. Almost every power framework currently in the game is represented in archetype form, and all of them will be in the future. While seven of them are free, there are 24 power frameworks in total. That leaves 17. Premium archetypes cost 920 Atari Tokens apiece.
920 x 17 = 15,640
In order to buy 15,640 Atari Tokens, you would need to spend $200 USD. Keep in mind, this is just one character slot. At that point, you would be better off spending the extra $99.99 to get lifetime access to infinite freeform slots, the stipend, and the rest of the Gold benefits.
It screws the user and it screws the company in the long term. Long story short, it's not going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by Lantesh on Jul 2, 2011 16:24:24 GMT -5
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Silvers being discriminated against. I too am a Silver player and I can tell you that we actually have a pretty sweet deal going here. CO has a very generous model compared to other games. For some comparison, go take a look at Age of Conan's new F2P model. It's so incredibly restrictive that even the premium paying players are scared about it chasing off new people instead of getting them to play.
In addition, we really do have access to nearly all Gold content via the cash shop. The only things that we can't get from the cash shop are freeform characters and a higher resource limit, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about here when it comes to other Gold only content.
We can buy all the APs they get access to, all costume pieces, all travel powers, inventory spaces, bank spaces, character slots, costume slots, and many archetypes with more of them on the way. We get access to all zones and all lairs by default and they even kicked us the new Comic Series for free. That's a huge deal since they aren't locking us away from the new content like other hybrid MMOs do.
I also disagree on being able to buy freeform characters in the cash shop. In order for a hybrid model like this to succeed, you need to have exclusive perks for your premium players. This keeps your subscribers subbed and offers a nice incentive for new players to sub. Without that, there would be no reason to be a premium player at all. You could just buy a few things from the cash shop and a freeform slot and be done with it. Many of your subscribers would drop their subs in favor of that. The trick is to have those perks be good enough to want people to sub, but not so good that it discourages your free players and makes them want to leave. I believe that Cryptic got it right in this regard. The Gold players get enough goodies to keep them happy and bring in new subs, while Silver players like me can still enjoy the game without being discouraged. So as much as I would love to play a freeform, I believe that it should stay a Gold only perk.
|
|
|
Post by puenboy on Jul 3, 2011 2:37:19 GMT -5
Well, turbine did that, and they didn't starve. You people keep putting up arguments without supporting evidence.
Here's my evidence: Turbine did it, and they quadrupled their revenue. And don't say it's different. CO is a game, DDO and LoTRO is a game. No difference. Like you said, if Cryptic can make more money screwing over subscribers, they should absolutely do it. Like your argument said, Cryptic's gonna make money. They don't work for silvers or gold. They work for themselves, so as long as it makes more money, they can and should give gold things for silver at a price.
|
|
|
Post by melkathi on Jul 3, 2011 5:04:39 GMT -5
And what does Turbine charge for?
|
|
|
Post by sparkycc on Jul 3, 2011 7:03:45 GMT -5
I know that this will probably never happen (at this stage of development it would probably kill Cryptic, like many of you already said), I'm just saying that's how they should have tried to work it in the first place. Silver and Gold should just be two different ways to pay.
If Cryptic were going to do this all again, what I would reccommend is having a model that had two choices on how to access content. 1. Pay a monthly (or every 3/6 months, or a lifetime sub, but you get the picture) fee to have pretty much all content available to you, and have a monthly stipend to pay for whatever else is available. 2. Pay money in the C-Store for whatever you need, when you need it. If you were to buy everything the game has to offer in this way, it would probably work out more expensive than a lifetime sub, but this would work out easier for many people.
I know some of you are probably thinking what the point of this thread is, but it's just for arguments sake. (Also, I realise I've probably been talking rubbish throughout both my posts xD)
|
|
|
Post by Jaxton Dragoon on Jul 3, 2011 7:14:13 GMT -5
I'm with Lantesh. I still consider myself a Silver as I have yet to pay for a sub, I have gotten a few months of Gold time from getting two game boxes and one time card via gift cards. I do not intend to spend money on a subscription but to save it till I hit the $300 for Lifetime.
I think Silver's have access to nearly everything, freeform builds and the veteran rewards being the only things they lose. The closest I would offer Silver's to a freeform build is what I call a combo or hybrid AT. This would be purchasable like the premium ATs but would allow the player to mix skills from two ATs that they owned. As for veteran rewards I see leaving them to paid players but some minimal reward system for Silvers could be nice.
|
|
|
Post by hadouken on Jul 3, 2011 9:44:37 GMT -5
There is an alternative to the OPs suggestion. He could do what I did, and wait til he's old enough to earn/have a credit card.
|
|
|
Post by Starboard_Nacelle on Jul 3, 2011 10:08:40 GMT -5
I know that this will probably never happen (at this stage of development it would probably kill Cryptic, like many of you already said), I'm just saying that's how they should have tried to work it in the first place. Silver and Gold should just be two different ways to pay. If Cryptic were going to do this all again, what I would reccommend is having a model that had two choices on how to access content. 1. Pay a monthly (or every 3/6 months, or a lifetime sub, but you get the picture) fee to have pretty much all content available to you, and have a monthly stipend to pay for whatever else is available. 2. Pay money in the C-Store for whatever you need, when you need it. If you were to buy everything the game has to offer in this way, it would probably work out more expensive than a lifetime sub, but this would work out easier for many people. I know some of you are probably thinking what the point of this thread is, but it's just for arguments sake. (Also, I realise I've probably been talking rubbish throughout both my posts xD) Read this. I worked out the math. You can already buy most of what the game has to offer individually, and it's 55.141682242990654205607476635514% more expensive than the base offerings of the lifetime subscription. This isn't even factoring in the fact that Gold members get free character slots whenever they get a character to level 40. The subscription is therefore infinite in value. Now, going back to my previous point, if a person has the option to purchase everything but veteran rewards, why bother buying more than a couple of character slots and nothing else? Where is the incentive to subscribe or spend any more money? Some crappy little item every 100 days? The ability to change the colors of your powers? No advertisements? Who cares? You're playing for free! A triple-A MMO needs fixed income to maintain the costs of development and running the actual server. Over time, monthly subscriptions stand to bring in more money than short-term microtransactions. That's fact. The hybrid model works so well because it guarantees money in the future as well as the present. Well, turbine did that, and they didn't starve. You people keep putting up arguments without supporting evidence. Here's my evidence: Turbine did it, and they quadrupled their revenue. And don't say it's different. CO is a game, DDO and LoTRO is a game. No difference. Like you said, if Cryptic can make more money screwing over subscribers, they should absolutely do it. Like your argument said, Cryptic's gonna make money. They don't work for silvers or gold. They work for themselves, so as long as it makes more money, they can and should give gold things for silver at a price. You completely misinterpreted that in ways I can't even begin to comprehend. Yes, they are all MMOs, but what you fail to understand is that Cryptic stands to make more money off monthly subscriptions over time than they could ever get off of Silver players. Furthermore, Turbine has direct control over its microtransaction currency, and they sell huge portions of the game in their store. All of the money goes to them. Cryptic has to work with Atari, so they don't make as much off the system as Turbine does. You've been given more than you realize. With the exception of the Adventure Packs, all content is free, which isn't the case with Lord of the Rings. This is probably the most generous hybrid model currently on the market. Unlike more traditional MMOs, Champions Online has no class system. You just pick whatever ability you want from any framework and roll with it. Silvers are given a more traditional experience with the archetypes in the hopes that the freeform power selection will entice them to subscribe to the game and give Cryptic the money they need to keep the lights on in the present and the future. And frankly, if you can afford to dump $200 on one character slot, you're better off waiting until you have the extra $99.99. No monthly fees, all the benefits, and all of the money goes to Cryptic.
|
|
|
Post by greendragoon on Jul 3, 2011 12:09:14 GMT -5
If subscriptions were enough, Champions online would have never have gone f2p. This notion that subscriptions, are the only proper way to pay for an MMO is absurd.
In the end, I can't force Cryptic to take my money. It's their loss as I'm NOT going to pay for a subscription, and with the system they've set up to treat silver as second class citizens, I'll end up putting a lot less into the C-Store than I might have.
|
|
|
Post by Starboard_Nacelle on Jul 3, 2011 13:09:35 GMT -5
If subscriptions were enough, Champions online would have never have gone f2p. This notion that subscriptions, are the only proper way to pay for an MMO is absurd. I didn't say they were the "proper" way, I said they made the most business sense because they ensure a set amount future income. This means guaranteed money for development and maintenance. The game went free-to-play because they didn't have enough subscriptions to sustain the game. Cryptic made several bad PR stunts that drove off players. (Vibora Bay, anyone?) In the end, I can't force Cryptic to take my money. It's their loss as I'm NOT going to pay for a subscription, and with the system they've set up to treat silver as second class citizens, I'll end up putting a lot less into the C-Store than I might have. You're not being treated as "second-class," you're being given an entire game on a somewhat limited basis. Just envision the archetypes as being a class system, and suddenly, it makes sense. You could hypothetically not spend any money at all and still play the game. Tell me this: Why should someone who has promised a certain amount of their money to a company for a month or more or made a huge investment directly into said company not be given something exclusive for their loyalty? Gold members have to buy some things off the Cryptic Store too, so it's not like we're that much better. We're just getting what we paid for, and so are you.
|
|
|
Post by greendragoon on Jul 3, 2011 15:22:52 GMT -5
You're not being treated as "second-class," you're being given an entire game on a somewhat limited basis. Just envision the archetypes as being a class system, and suddenly, it makes sense. You could hypothetically not spend any money at all and still play the game. Tell me this: Why should someone who has promised a certain amount of their money to a company for a month or more or made a huge investment directly into said company not be given something exclusive for their loyalty? Gold members have to buy some things off the Cryptic Store too, so it's not like we're that much better. We're just getting what we paid for, and so are you. Because they made freeforms the point of loyalty, they've created an effective barrier between gold and silver. Because freeform performance is superior to archetypes, they separate them into a different class of PvP. This drives a big fat wedge in the community right down the division between silver and gold. That combined with the fact that silvers aren't even allowed on the official forums no matter how much they've spent in the C-Store, and I have to say that we ARE treated like second class citizens. If this was a single player game, it wouldn't be an issue, but community is a HUGE part of an MMO, and right now there is a huge divide. Look, I'm not asking for free stuff. I'm fully willing to pay. It doesn't have to be a pay once for everything. There are a lot of ways this could be integrated into the C-Store, but a lot of people seem to treat even the discussion of it as the end of Gold, maybe the end of Gold supremacy.
|
|
|
Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jul 3, 2011 16:50:04 GMT -5
I didn't say they were the "proper" way, I said they made the most business sense because they ensure a set amount future income. This means guaranteed money for development and maintenance. The game went free-to-play because they didn't have enough subscriptions to sustain the game. Cryptic made several bad PR stunts that drove off players. (Vibora Bay, anyone?) This logic is flawed. There is nothing locking in a subscription for more than the time they've already paid for. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone for paying for one month.. and then stopping before it puts another charge on their card. If "guaranteed money" is the only reason you can think of to justify the existence of a subscriber model, then a subscriber model has no justifiable reason to exist. There is no such thing as guaranteed money in this case. The only guarantee they have is the money you've already given them. Furthermore, the free to play model is far more lucrative. Compare how much you would have to spend to get everything, sans a few gold perks, from c-store as compared to paying a life time gold sub. It's quite a bit more money, and it would be very easy to outpace a monthly sub in c-store items. I know I've already done it(though I consider it an investment of items I consider necessary for the next month or two). The subscriber model is actually the weaker model by far. Getting just a few basic essentials from the c-store can end up having you pay several months worth of subscriptions, and you have no more guarantee that someone will want more doodads than you have that someone will keep wanting to play the game. I actually made it something of a bad habit to play a lot of free to play MMOs before it became the hip thing to do for the big boys of the scene. I've always seen it be a highly successful model. It even works on a small scale with a small player base. Even an inconsistent player base. Whereas a sub model needs quite a few VERY DEDICATED players to keep the game propped up. That all said, I don't really care about free form. I don't want to go through the trouble, and I'm probably taking more risks with ATs than I would in freeform. No doubt I'd go paranoid mode about being able to contribute in a group and build a boring tank mage or "press button receive mission complete" build of some sort. ATs sort of save me from myself, and it's only a matter of time before the sets I want to play get an AT made. I could certainly go for hue shifting, but that's minor.
|
|
|
Post by scrizz on Jul 3, 2011 19:27:17 GMT -5
lol, you people forget that GOLD subs are just a cancel away from being silver. If they become silver, they won't be able to play their chars. Let's say someone subbed for 2 years and met on difficult financial times. They would no longer be able to play their chars they paid $360 for... that isn't right.
|
|
|
Post by squirrelloid on Jul 5, 2011 9:55:41 GMT -5
You've been given more than you realize. With the exception of the Adventure Packs, all content is free, which isn't the case with Lord of the Rings. This is probably the most generous hybrid model currently on the market. Puzzle Pirates disagrees with you. And considering YPP has gravitated almost entirely to its F2P model (~6 english + some foreign language F2P servers vs. 2 subscription servers at present, and the subscription servers are the oldest), clearly they make more money on the F2P model.
|
|