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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 15:45:17 GMT -5
I noticed a lack of a PvP guide for the specific Hero Games and duels, so I decided to make one based on my experience in it. Note, this guide will be heavily focused on PvP with a Behemoth, but it contains information on all of the various Hero Games available at the lower levels which could be useful for any archetype. I have not played any of the other archetypes much at all, but I have studied their skills and builds, and I have a few ideas of how some of them could be used.
On to business:
HERO GAMES: UTC MATCH - UNRESTRICTED
It is very easy to get a very mismatched team lineup in this particular Hero Game, which would lead to a 15/0 win. If you plan to go into this one, it's best to go with a pre-defined team that has at least one AOE healer, one character good at holds/stuns/interrupts, and a couple of heavy damage dealers. This is the only Hero Games I do not go into on a regular basis, so I will not pretend to know any decent tactics for it. If anyone else does, feel free to post a response with them here.
HERO GAMES: UTC MATCH - ARCHETYPE
It's still a good idea to go in with a pre-defined team with the layout I gave above, but if you just want to jump in on your own you'll need a good amount of luck to be paired with a half decent team.
BEHEMOTH: Unless you're close to the very bottom of the level range for your particular bracket, above level 11 this thing can kill pretty much any other archetype 1 on 1. The problem is, it most likely won't be 1 on 1.
Anyways, for any archetype you have, the main goal is to get kills on the other team as fast as possible, so coordinate with your team members and focus fire on the weakest enemies. Priority one should be a Mind, because their healing abilities make their fellow team members very difficult to kill. If no Mind is available, Infernos and Soldiers are your next primary targets. Behemoths and Glaciers should be avoided if possible, though feel free to temporarily focus on them to disrupt their attacks then switch back to your primary target. The rest of the archetypes fall roughly in the middle of priority.
Again, if you just jump in randomly on your own into this particular Hero Game, luck will play a big factor in the matchups.
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 16:04:59 GMT -5
HERO GAMES: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE - ARCHETYPE
1) Defender start, Behemoth
First off, for ANY archetype, get into a team with your fellow teammates especially if you happen to get a Mind with you. This will let you see their hitpoint levels and therefore know if you have to charge in to their rescue if they're about to die.
As a Behemoth, you are the primary defender against the first human zombie, since you are the only archetype that can safely go outside the security of the group and take on any other archetype solo. Many of the other archetypes are quite good at killing the NPC zombies; your job is to make sure they can stay alive to do that. This is one instance where Flight is an excellent travel skill to have.
When you exit the cabin and after you have joined a team with your fellow defenders, fly up high above the cabin and start scanning around. From that vantage point you should be able to see the first human zombie when he starts approaching for an attack from quite far away. When you first see him, the very first thing you should do is target him and do Show Info on his portrait to determine his archetype. This will directly affect the tactics you need to use to attack him. When you do determine the zombie archetype, also announce it to your teammates to help them decide how to defend as well.
ARCHETYPE OTHER THAN A GLACIER OR BEHEMOTH: Charge in hard and mush him into a puddle, before he has a chance to do much damage. If you have built well, you shouldn't have any real problems with this. If they teleport away in the middle of the fight, check to see if you need any Healing. Go to the center of town and grab a healing orb if you need it, then resume the hunt right away.
GLACIER ZOMBIE: They can't do much damage, but they do have a respectable tank. After your first Mighty Leap stunning charge, try to manoeuver around him so that your first knocking attack (i.e. Roomsweeper) will send him flying towards the rest of your group. When they see him fly in and you come charging in right afterwards at him hell for leather, their focused fire should quickly bring him down unless he teleports out of there. Maintaining stuns and knockbacks on him as much as possible should help prevent this.
BEHEMOTH ZOMBIE: You are in trouble. Having a Behemoth as the first human zombie is pretty much the worst situation you can be in, especially if there are no other Behemoths to counter him.
First off, if you're a flying Behemoth get low right away, unless you trust your hand-eye reaction times. Both of you will be able to swat each other out of the air with the Nailed to the Ground boost on Mighty Leap, and you WILL use it. At maximum height in the Zombie Apocalypse arena, a full drop will hurt for over 1200 damage when you hit the ground, and if he can hit you first with that he will be on you like a limpet and pound you with everything he has. If he can kill you right off the bat with this, the Zombies are virtually guaranteed to win as there is very little in the Archetypes that can handle a pair of Behemoths attacking at once.
Get low, get back into the center of town, and watch him like a hawk. When he does attack, stop him cold with whatever you can and get your teammates to help you, to take him out as quickly as possible before he can do too much damage. You will have to be on a constant vigil at all times, as he WILL attack again and again, hard. Make sure to tell your fellow defenders to stay in the middle of the town at all times. Any outliers will die, and your problems will quickly snowball out of controll. However, with a good team and a LOT of luck, you should hopefully pull through.
2) First Zombie
Being the first zombie can be rather exciting and challenging. Some people may hate it, others love it.
Your primary tactic is to kill defenders, of any type, as quickly as possible. Every defender you kill means less firepower directed at you and more firepower directed at them, as well as being a distraction. Any archetype will help with this, so always target the fastest person to kill first.
First off, for any archetype, don't just rush in guns blazing. Take your time at the beginning. If you have the power, fly up to the very top of the arena and fly close enough to the cabin to be able to see the names of the various defenders. Study them. Target them one at a time and check their archetypes. Remember the names of those who are a particularly vulnerable archetype. Soldiers and Infernos are your prime targets, with Grimoires and Voids not far behind. If they happen to have a Mind, however (which in my experience has been quite rare in fact, it doesn't seem to be a popular archetype) it would be best to target them first unless one of the other prime targets has decided to go quite far away from the rest of the group.
If a defender (like a flying Behemoth) intercepts you right away, so what? If you die as a Zombie you don't lose points, and at the very start you need information more than anything else. In fact, knowing that they have a flying Behemoth as a defender is a rather crucial piece of information.
BEHEMOTH: If there is a flying Behemoth defender, try to lure him up as high as possible and as far away from the rest of the group as possible, and watch your Mighty Leap button like a hawk. The INSTANT it becomes active, to show you're in range, USE IT. If you're lucky, you'll drop him before he can drop you, and the heavy damage he takes on landing could be all the advantage you need to get an extremely powerful ally that will virtually guarantee your win.
If no flying Behemoths are coming at you, watch the prime targets that you found earlier, moving your mouse over them to quickly check their hitpoint bars. Once one of them is either a bit outside the rest of the group or looks to be losing some health, CHARGE! Hit him hard, hit him fast, knock him flying, don't give him time to recuperate with one of the health drops from the Zombies. With a little luck, his friends won't come to his rescue in time and you may even get a kill on your first attack run. If this occurs, you have learned that they do not have the damage output to stop you quickly and your victory is assured within less than 10 minutes.
INFERNO, SOLDIER ZOMBIE: (This is a tactic only from general knowledge of the archetypes, not actually proven but I believe it will work): You do not have the tank to sustain much of anything. You do, however, have an attack that can hit someone from 100 feet away. Your best chance, again with Flight, is to fly up high, search for a weaker archetype as was explained above, and pump as much damage into them from long range as possible before they realize what is going on. They won't be able to evade you, and if you're lucky they won't have someone able to come up there and knock you down. Most of their stronger attacks will likely be out of range of you. Sure, other ranged archetypes may be able to hit you from that range, but your primary concern is to kill someone, ANYONE, before you die.
For any archetype, if you do die as a Zombie, don't worry about it too much. Climb right back out as soon as you can and try to find the exact same target you were hitting before. If you're lucky, they haven't healed back up to full strength yet, so you have even more of a chance of killing them before you fall. From what I've seen, unless the first defender kill is very late in the round, once 2 defender deaths have occured a zombie victory is absolutely guaranteed. So get those kills!
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 16:55:12 GMT -5
HERO GAMES: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE - UNRESTRICTED
First off, having seen the capabilities of the freeform archetypes in this match I would probably not even attempt this one as an archetype other than a Behemoth. Freeform characters are (usually) quite strong, experienced and organized. Even as a Behemoth, if you're the first zombie you have a long, hard fight ahead of you. Because I can't concieve of any effective tactics with a non-Behemoth archetype in this situation, this part of the guide is purely for Behemoths. I would also not recommend any archetype try this particular Hero Game until you have had several rounds in the Archetype version, so that you both get a feel for the logistics of the game and you see first hand what the various archetypes are capable of (or lack thereof). Finally, it is highly recommended that you don't attempt this Hero Game until you're within at most 3 levels of the top of your level bracket for the Game. You'll need all of the skills available to you within that level range.
1) DEFENDER
As in the Archetype version, the first thing you should do is determine the build of the first zombie. If he happens to be one of the standard Archetypes, you're in luck; you should already know the tactics needed to take him down, and a Behemoth zombie is not quite as much of an "oh-crap" situation.
If the first zombie is a Freeform, however, be very careful how you proceed. In many cases you won't be able to outright kill him one on one. Pay special attention to his active buffs and passives. Don't even think about attacking anyone with the Defiant or Invincible buff, as they will most likely have both a better passive tank than yours as well as strong healing abilities. Coordinate with your teammates. Stay with the group. And grab the green healing orbs whenever you need to (before you really need to, if possible). With the rest of your team you should be able to be a valuable asset to the group, and pull through.
2) ZOMBIE
This is going to be hard, one of the hardest situations you could ever face. You are going to go alone against a SQUAD of freeform characters, with rather minor help from the NPCs. It is not, however, impossible; I have had a couple of rounds now in this situation, and I won both times. Don't be surprised however if you don't get your first kill for at least 8 minutes.
The initial information gathering from up high is crucial; yes there will be freeforms down there, but there may be Archetypes as well. Find out. Pick out the weak ones, Infernos and Soldiers again being your primary targets, and preferably as far away from the central group as possible. As before, hit them when they least expect it and don't let up until one of you is dead.
However, if you're unlucky enough to get a batch of defenders where ALL of them are freeforms, you will have to find the weakest one the hard way.
First off, skip anyone with a Defiance or Invincible buff. Their tanks will be far too high for you to break through before you die. Use your judgement, based on what you learned of the various skills in the Archetypes version of this game, and try to pick one that doesn't seem as tough. Then, try it out. When you're attacking, watch his hitpoint bar carefully. How fast does it go down? Does it regenerate quickly? Therefore, how quickly do you think you could kill this character if he didn't have backup?
Do this one by one for several good looking targets, and try to pick a couple that show promise. You will fail in the first few attempts, guaranteed. But the key question is how QUICKLY you fail, i.e. how organized are they and how much damage do they put out? Also, every time you come back up quickly find the target you just attacked and check his hitpoints. Did he heal? If not, hit him hard regardless of where he is! If he's in the center of town, he will have access to the healing orbs from zombies, but then so will you. Hopefully if the zombie horde is quite big his friends will have a hard time targeting you, so you may have a chance.
Don't get discouraged if you can't get a kill for several minutes. Be patient. Be how your archetype is intended; an unstoppable force that just keeps on coming. Unless the defenders are absolutely perfect with their coordination, you have a chance. And keep in mind, you may get archetypes joining in later in the round, and they are definitely easier targets.
Don't give up.
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Post by melkathi on Feb 22, 2011 17:26:36 GMT -5
When survivor side, the advice I always find myself wanting to shout at some starting zombies is:
"If you have selected a target for your first kill and the player proves harder to kill than anticipated, change target." Though you do not loose anything by dying repeatedly other than time, you do not gain anything either.
Player skill does come into play in PvP and sometimes the squishy target we pick proves to be a rather good player who just manages to survive. If you have ambushed someone two or three times and they didn't die, the fourth time is very unlikely to go any better - now they are actually expecting you.
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 22, 2011 17:57:55 GMT -5
When survivor side, the advice I always find myself wanting to shout at some starting zombies is: "If you have selected a target for your first kill and the player proves harder to kill than anticipated, change target." Though you do not loose anything by dying repeatedly other than time, you do not gain anything either. Player skill does come into play in PvP and sometimes the squishy target we pick proves to be a rather good player who just manages to survive. If you have ambushed someone two or three times and they didn't die, the fourth time is very unlikely to go any better - now they are actually expecting you. Yes, that is actually a very important tactic that I forgot to add, thank you for mentioning it. It is especially true in the Unrestricted Zombie Apocalypse if they've healed. |
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 23, 2011 3:48:36 GMT -5
U could stay and watch theyr health bar and whenever u see someones drop below 30 % charge fast ^^ that always works for me as a zombie.
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Post by melkathi on Feb 23, 2011 5:59:52 GMT -5
U could stay and watch theyr health bar and whenever u see someones drop below 30 % charge fast ^^ that always works for me as a zombie. Deffinitly! It's an unfair fight to start with, so as a zombie you have to adjust the odds. Zombies care not about honour, only brains  though sometimes you get a survivor healer who is just there to annoy you, doing nothing but spotting you and casting shields and heals on your target. I know I did that for a few matches on one character  |
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Post by acrobatoid on Feb 23, 2011 8:03:26 GMT -5
Ooooh, beautiful guide, thanks man. Guess you love to have Super Strength as I do |
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 23, 2011 8:51:41 GMT -5
i once stood there for 5 minutes until i noticed 3 players that are losing health faster then the others, ofc they had a healer whit them, but the healer always healed in a patern, usually he healed the char that had the best aoe. i ataked 2 or 3 times to confirm my theory after that all went smooth Good guide kilja |
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 23, 2011 11:46:58 GMT -5
i once stood there for 5 minutes until i noticed 3 players that are losing health faster then the others, ofc they had a healer whit them, but the healer always healed in a patern, usually he healed the char that had the best aoe. i ataked 2 or 3 times to confirm my theory after that all went smooth Good guide kilja Wow, they let you just sit there studying for a full five minutes, without attacking you? The defenders really didn't know what they were doing then. And that is also a bit of an issue. In the Archetype version, there have been several times where I've been a defender and the first zombie was an easier type to kill, so I didn't give him so much as an inch. He didn't even have a chance to get to the other defenders, but we lost anyways because at least one of the defenders died to the NPCs. That's the main reason why it's so important to get into a team as the defender; if someone is dying you'll be able to see it, so go help them! |
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Post by ashen on Feb 23, 2011 18:49:22 GMT -5
If you are the player zombie (my prefered role):
1) one of the ways to increase your chance of success is for the numbers of Fetterers (or Fatties) to build up. Both of these zombie types have excellent crowd control. If there are enough of them present on the battlefield it is just a matter of time before one of the heroes gets chain-yanked (or held) into oblivion.
1a) Lead heroes away from the main fetterer locations near the corners of the cabin.
1b) Use your own CC on heroes that are focused on the Feterers.
2) Lead partiularly aggressive heroes away from the cabin. If more than one follow you, play hide and seek. If you are popping in and out of teleport, or using some other stealth ability, or even just using terrain to block LoS, eventually one of the heroes following you will likely get discouraged and leave. Rarely will both pursuers break of at the same time. This gives you an opportunity where its you and some zombie spawns against one overzealous hero. Use your CC very aggressively in this circumstance. Help the NPC zombies to help you and you are set.
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Post by melkathi on Feb 23, 2011 19:49:27 GMT -5
Of course if there is only one hero chasing you, you can actually pull them towards the Fetterer spawn point. I found it very amusing to watch the dual blade fotm toon chasing me actually build up a Fetterer army for me by attacking me while I was blocking - killing the simple zombies that got into melee range while the fetterers stayed alive |
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Post by maxidanny on Feb 24, 2011 1:52:22 GMT -5
i once stood there for 5 minutes until i noticed 3 players that are losing health faster then the others, ofc they had a healer whit them, but the healer always healed in a patern, usually he healed the char that had the best aoe. i ataked 2 or 3 times to confirm my theory after that all went smooth Good guide kilja Wow, they let you just sit there studying for a full five minutes, without attacking you? The defenders really didn't know what they were doing then. And that is also a bit of an issue. In the Archetype version, there have been several times where I've been a defender and the first zombie was an easier type to kill, so I didn't give him so much as an inch. He didn't even have a chance to get to the other defenders, but we lost anyways because at least one of the defenders died to the NPCs. That's the main reason why it's so important to get into a team as the defender; if someone is dying you'll be able to see it, so go help them!  ) no sorry i sayd it the wrong way i didnt just stood there i stayed out of theyr range moving alot at the edges of the map, and managed to stay out of theyr atention....and yes i was lucky they didnt scan the map or anything just killed zombies... |
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Post by kiljaedenas on Feb 24, 2011 11:47:49 GMT -5
If you are the player zombie (my prefered role): 1) one of the ways to increase your chance of success is for the numbers of Fetterers (or Fatties) to build up. Both of these zombie types have excellent crowd control. If there are enough of them present on the battlefield it is just a matter of time before one of the heroes gets chain-yanked (or held) into oblivion. 1a) Lead heroes away from the main fetterer locations near the corners of the cabin. 1b) Use your own CC on heroes that are focused on the Feterers. 2) Lead partiularly aggressive heroes away from the cabin. If more than one follow you, play hide and seek. If you are popping in and out of teleport, or using some other stealth ability, or even just using terrain to block LoS, eventually one of the heroes following you will likely get discouraged and leave. Rarely will both pursuers break of at the same time. This gives you an opportunity where its you and some zombie spawns against one overzealous hero. Use your CC very aggressively in this circumstance. Help the NPC zombies to help you and you are set. By CC I'm guessing you mean crowd-control, i.e. stuns, holds, etc? |
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Post by kiljaedenas on Mar 1, 2011 13:27:27 GMT -5
Some new material for all of you: B.A.S.H - WESTSIDE - ARCHETYPE If you could only use two words to describe BASH, "chaotic mess" would be a good fit. You get access to this event at level 21. In this event, your goal is to kill 10 players before anyone else does. People will be attacking at random, stealing kills, teaming up on you then going against each other...it's an utter madhouse. This event can be fun, but make no mistake: it can, and will, piss you off at times. ARCHETYPE STRATEGIES: One critical thing to note is that you don't have to be the person who most actively kills a player to get credit for the kill. As long as you are openly attacking someone when they die, even if you contribute less than 5% of the total damage to them, you will still get the kill point, as will anyone else fighting that unfortunate soul. Knowing this, some cheap schmucks (you know who you are  ), usually of a ranged class of some kind and nearly always equipped with Teleport, will zip around the combat area and "help" in a number of battles to get the easy kill points, teleporting away whenever they get into even the least bit of trouble. No reasonable person would ever attribute a kill to them given how little damage they actually do, but in terms of the points awarded they will usually be the winner with no deaths. Because of this fact, this is one event where the mighty Behemoth is at a disadvantage. True, 1 on 1 it can still steamroll over pretty much anything else on the field, but these hit and run guerilla fighters will probably be watching you very closely to try and get free kills off of your prey. However, this particular arena (Westside) also has some interesting aspects for a Behemoth: -There are lots of objects around to pick up and throw, and given the Behemoth's massive strength the stuff he throws may actually do some damage. TACTICAL NOTE ON FLIGHT AND THROWING STUFF: While you have something picked up you can't switch into flight if you have the power, and you're stuck on the ground until you throw or crush the item you're holding. However, if you are already in flight when you pick up something, you stay in flight and retain full mobility! Giving someone an aerial bombardment with a cargo van before rushing in with a stunning Leap is an effective (and fun ;D) way to start a fight -There are several buildings (or pieces of them) in the area. If you can lure someone to a rooftop to fight them, then use a strong knockback attack to knock them off the roof, they will take significantly higher falling damage than normal. Just remember not to take the same falling damage when you're chasing down after them; activate something like Flight or hit them with a Mighty Leap before you hit the ground. |
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) no sorry i sayd it the wrong way i didnt just stood there i stayed out of theyr range moving alot at the edges of the map, and managed to stay out of theyr atention....and yes i was lucky they didnt scan the map or anything just killed zombies...
), usually of a ranged class of some kind and nearly always equipped with Teleport, will zip around the combat area and "help" in a number of battles to get the easy kill points, teleporting away whenever they get into even the least bit of trouble. No reasonable person would ever attribute a kill to them given how little damage they actually do, but in terms of the points awarded they will usually be the winner with no deaths.